Say "NO!" to ROOMMATES

[HeadRat]

A rather unusual and frightening trend seems to be rising up more and more often, as I hear of yet ANOTHER company trying this out.

ROOMMATES!!! What?! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE to ANY TRUE Overseas Professional. If you are willing to go to a job and live with this condition, you are hurting us all.

As time goes on, wages, benefits, and now our LIVING CONDITIONS are being reduced? I don't care HOW much I like someone as a friend, I do NOT accept ANYONE as my roommate.

Would you go to a job for $30/hour or $15/hour? $30/hour, of course, right? Then why are people settling for roommates? If you DO settle for this, you might as well expect to be heading to jobs for $15/hour because that is what you are saying to the companies.

"...Well, ok, I'll take less, why don't you make ME pay for the plane tickets as well?"

The only way to fight this is to stand together. SAY NO TO ROOMMATES.

OUTRAGEOUS!!!! :kib:

[TheJester]

I will work at home before I work AND live with someone. I bring my OWN roommate to my jobs, my wife.

I couldn't even IMAGINE being FORCED to share an apt with some of these people out here.

[dan4th]

I know Jones does it, what other companies are trying this bullshit. If we don't know who how can we protest them.

[TheJester]

Zachry, that I know of, is trying to do it as well. I'd say, it is a safe bet to ask when talking to the company, as always, "...and what are the living conditions for me."

If I hear anything that involves "TWO TO A..." they won't even finish the sentence before I hang up.

[drifter]

I did it Sofia and hated it. WILL NOT do it again! These guys are great to work with until you see, first-hand, what their nasty habits are.
:2cents

[dan4th]

I agree, Sofia with Jones is why I won't do it again either.

[wkdivr]

:wtf Not only no.....but FUCK NO!!!!!! Did the roomate thing for too many years on Kwaj. If that's what it comes down to, I'll just stay in the States.

[The Wild Rover]

Well,
as we have seen,many contractors try this. Some of us have done it on Kwaj and other places...but we got tough, and forced responses in many places... One remark about the current trend, because I am on many projects as a subcontractor, and we strive for a decent place to live. Being a subcontractor, we told our boss we need to have better conditions considering where we live. We work in places for 3-9 months at a crack, and if everyplace is sub-par, we are constantly living in slum to slum on these jobs. So our boss, great guy that he is, took the extra step to keep the people that make him money, Happy
You all should have walked into the office, as a group, and demanded that the project accounts guy, and the admin officer get thier shit together, and demand that you have seperate appartments or you were walking....He was an asshole. I had to deal with this jerk, and he fucked you all,and nobody did anything about it. None of You did anything, so you all are partly to blame for accepting it. You would have had the accounts guy by the balls, and he knew it. Did you notice he did not live like you guys! He had his own apartment, and vehicle.
OR
You all could have written a letter to the big shot at the head office,(lets be professional in this forum, no names no fouls) and signed it as a petition to complain about the living conditions, and threatened to walk off the project together. You did not.
We are the tradesmen. They cannot build these projects without us. They know this, and they bid the contracts with this in mind...at least that is what most of them tell you.
I believe if you all organized yourself as a group, and walked in together, and had a show of force , you would convince anyone.
"We stand together now, or we hang seperately later on" Ben Franklin said that. It made sense 200 some odd years ago, and it makes sense now.
We must ALL stand together on this roomate issue, or it will only be the beginning, the tip of the iceberg...
The Wild Rover
PS..Ben Franklin also said, "Beer is Gods way of showing Us that He truly loves US", :cheers

[TheJester]

At first I was going to make a joke, about how you should post up more often, The Wild Rover, so that you could make shorter posts, BUT, you make all valid and honest points.
AND I like the Ben Franklin quotes. :cheers

[wkdivr]

Well,
as we have seen,many contractors try this. Some of us have done it on Kwaj and other places...but we got tough, and forced responses in many places... One remark about Sofia, because I was on the project, and I had a great place to live because I was on a subcontractors contract, and where we as the subcontractor employees told our boss we need to have better conditions considering where we live. We work in places for 3-9 months at a crack, and if everyplace is sub-par, we are constantly living in slum to slum on these jobs. So our boss, great guy that he is, took the extra step to keep the people that make him money, Happy
You all should have walked into the office, as a group, and demanded that the project accounts guy, and the admin officer get thier shit together, and demand that you have seperate appartments or you were walking....He was an asshole. I had to deal with this jerk, and he fucked you all,and nobody did anything about it. None of You did anything, so you all are partly to blame for accepting it. You would have had the JAJ guy by the balls, and he knew it. Did you notice he did not live like you guys! He had his own apartment, and vehicle.
OR
You all could have written a letter to the big shot at the head office,(lets be professional in this forum, no names no fouls) and signed it as a petition to complain about the living conditions, and threatened to walk off the project together. You did not.
We are the tradesmen. They cannot build these projects without us. They know this, and they bid the contracts with this in mind...at least that is what most of them tell you.
I believe if you all organized yourself as a group, and walked in together, and had a show of force , you would convince anyone.
"We stand together now, or we hang seperately later on" Ben Franklin said that. It made sense 200 some odd years ago, and it makes sense now.
We must ALL stand together on this roomate issue, or it will only be the beginning, the tip of the iceberg...
The Wild Rover
PS..Ben Franklin also said, "Beer is Gods way of showing Us that He truly loves US", :cheers



MAN!!!!!! I'm speechless!!!! That was excellent!!!

[RatBrother]

You struck the nail on the head, I like when you get on your soap box and put out the dirty laundry. It has been 7 years since I was on Kwaj, and even then they were updating the housing to improve the living quarters.
The pay still aint crap, but if that is all you want, that is what your gonna get.
We need to make a stand to these contractors !!!! They know that there is more and more work out there, and the pickings to fill these slots are slim.
Plus we are starting to lose the Old Generation of folks with the most Experience. Ie... Jerry Killen , May the Lord rest his soul, and most recently
Charles Keele has been Diagnosed with cancer.
To these contractors we need to say " Fuck that".
Let them fill the jobs with F.N.G's , Nuke floor moppers, and My Son's boyfriend.
They will soon realize, that 18 months of Liquadated Damages, would have rented ALOT of apartments. Yall try the math, 15 grand a DAY that you are late on a completion date adds up pretty fucking fast !!!!!!

[HeadRat]

The fact that there are over a 100 views of this thread and growing is a good sign the word is getting out. Now, we all just need to hang together with this one and see it through.

[RatBrother]

yeah, over 110 views and 11 posts.
W.T.F. people ??????? Me, Me, and the gimme Gimmies.
Speak up !!!! Let Us hear from you !!
Contribute something !! Anything.

[global]

I was told today from upper management that Astana will the same as where I'm at now.
I havent seen a contract either though, so take that how you want to.
I'm going and will send info as I get it.

(edited by TheJester) watch what you say where about job info, dude. No harm, no foul, just letting you know.

[TheJester]

166+ views, you've all seen it, now stick to your guns. This practice is UNACCEPTABLE. It may mean sitting at home for a while, but say NO to Roommates.

Saying yes, screws us all.

[Natch]

Not just no, but HELL NO.
This trend has been rearing it's ugly head for a number of years and it's still just as ugly now as it was then.
I'm with these guys all day and if I'm going to spend time with them at night, I want it to be my choice, not the companies.
Ben said "Either we hang together now, or we all hang separately later"
We don't even need to hang together. Just turn down any contract that puts more than one person in one place, letting them know exactly why you are rejecting their contract, and sooner than later, we win.

[The Wild Rover]

Hey Natch,
How's it hangin? Been to Tijuana with you, seen the cross eyed girl on the train, so at least we have that going for us....inside joke. ANYHOW>>>>

I truly believe we must ALL agree on this, and hang together now, and all of us must be as one, and tell the contractors we will not share rooms. I have been on more overseas jobs than almost anyone on this site, and I can assure you that most Contractors do not know how to bid a job with American standards, that they cut costs because they think the foriegn labor is cheaper, that the admin. people cover themselves with perks, and that they shake out the expenses on the cleared Americans, and then loose the money on hiring local contractors with NO supervision, and NO clue on how OBO wants an American standard building, built with sub-standard FORIEGN labor, at sub-standard costs. They ALWAYS loose money re-working the local contractors fuck-ups. Am I the only one that sees this???!! Speak up people!!! How many people belong to this site, and hardly any of you log in and speak up??? Don't you know how to type???
AND.....
Why do these OBO idiots scratch their heads when a building that would take 14 months in the States, takes 3 years overseas, and the quality is below HUD building standards??? What do they expect? Are we to stand by and watch skilled Americans sit at home, just to justify a local economy, and a small one at that, prosper???? Answer me, anyone. What do we OWE these other economies??? Somebody log in and write something for once, somebody other than the 6 or so guys that always do.....
Remember...
We are building AMERICAN EMBASSIES!!! DO you think the Russians use American labor in the U.S....they do not!

1) OBO..... They are building cookie cutter, OBO architect, fucked up in every part of the drawings, copy cat boxes...
2) I know the cleared areas are different everywhere...but the idea is the same. They can't even get the materials right from job to job...ever! even with the same supplier, same BOM!!!
3) I always love the way the State people come in, walk around with their heads up their asses, and complain about how much we are paid....but these same people will cry if you have to work in their area.
" I have a lot of work to accomplish today, so how long will you be making that noise?", "Well how do you expect me to run this conduit through your wall lady? They should have installed rubber bricks!"
Ignore these idiots. Most are biased towards the working man. They need us more than we need them. They pay taxes, get ALL the benefits, and a great health care and retirement...but do they live together? Why do we have to?
4)The Gov't approved contractor BIDS the job, from OBO, at full per diem and MI+E for EACH employee. The gov't has rules about this. This is just another way for the contractor to hide costs, and keep ALL the money.
HERE IS THE Bottom Line
WE NEED WHISTLE BLOWERS!!!
WE Have the contractors by the balls, but we let them exploit us!!! We need to wise up in the above areas, before anything will work. believe me, it will get worse before it gets better. We must stop this advance now. Organize ourselves with the idea, go forward with a plan, and everyone...do not sell out. Remind your co-workers how important it is to tell the contractor what we as a group want. And stick to it. There is MORE power in numbers, this is basic math. WE either hang together now, or hang seperately later...
The Wild Rover.
I almost think I wrote this for myself. I hope all of you that log on and read this get pissed off enough to respond. I dare you. Do something except LURK!!! Pussies.
P.S. Natch...be careful on that toy of yours. I see on the news one had a mishap this week. I worry about you....I miss you bro, see you later Mr. Natural

[Natch]

Good to finally hear from you again and to know that you are still out there pounding cutting tips in the dirt. (inside joke) I'm sure you remember that.
I'm doing tele/data work now and it simply floors me just how simple this shit really is. Those phone techs had me fooled for years.
I'm getting ready to head home from Amsterdam in a couple of days. Man it pissed me off when they told me they wanted to send me to this place. NOT!
Full per diem at $355 is a nice ride.
Hope to run into ya again real soon dude.

[The Wild Rover]

I don't know how many of you might have known Joe Watson. He worked overseas as a Mechanical Superintendant for JA Jones for many years. He worked in many countries and locations such as Cairo, Kwaj, UAE, Germany...the list goes on. Joe passed away on Saturday, July 2nd, due to a long battle with cancer. Please remember Joe and his family in your payers.

[mexfishguide]

My feelings exactly!!!!!

I have voiced my concerns several times, but? people will not listen.

Folks we are cutting our own throats by sharing sleeping quarters with other people, I just today turned down an offer because of sharing living quarters, I only share a room with my wife!!!

My first overseas superintendent job overseas was in 1966 and I did not share quarters, my last trip ended 3 weeks ago, and I did not share quarters.

I told some people in Africa 3 years ago, they better quit taking the overseas jobs at such a low pay rate, are pretty soon we may as well stay home and be poop-- on.

Any journeyman who accepts an overseas job at less then US$30.00 per hr. and a guarenteed 40 hrs, with per dein and private lodging 7 days a week is making a big mistake. I personally demand guarenteed 60 hrs pay a week. I also demand OT for all over 60 hrs a week!

Guys we better stick together are we are messing in our own nest.

Thanks
Mexfishguide

:cheers :nono:

[HeadRat]

Mex, you make good points and I'm glad you stuck to your guns, that is what is going to take us all to do if we want something to actually go our way.

We work in a field that has a limited number people actually. Not just professionals, but hands in general. If you don't count the DOE people, there is about 300-400 hands I would say.

However, demanding OT will not work. Part of the giving a little getting a little deal that was made a long time ago was; we get the 330 exemption, the companies get the straight time. On the other hand, as I know several people have done, you CAN refuse to volunteer for working more than 60/week.

That is all your person preference though, if you decide to work more to put more money in the bank, you are wasting your time, in my opinion, because you'll be voiding it out in sick days off.

[RatBrother]

Wild Rover has been on his "Soap Box" again, But I love to listen to him.
The only thing that he left out and may not be aware of is some of these contractors are trying to convince OBO to let the locals work in OUR area, under " Supervision". That cuts out the Cleared workers, and puts it in the hands of a C.S.T. For those who don't know, that stands for Cock Sucker in Training !!! Sorry Smoke !! That scenerio didn't work in Moscow, and it can't work 20 years later.
What I am getting at is ; The job is bid, and the contracters are trying to cut as many costs as possible, and profit as much as possible. Your housing and per diem are the first to go down the shitter. it is a plumbers term we tend to use in the trade. I Love about a dozen of you hard core assholes like brothers, But I do not to life with an asshole. Brother or not.

[mexfishguide]

head rat

When I speak of OT when discussing or cussing overseas work. I do not mean 1&1/2 or 2x, but my normal straght time rate, I been out there since 1966, so i have seen a difference.

Yes I have seen and just a short time ago, when management asked for people to work sundays, but they had no OT money to pay them, but days off to compensate would be allowed, several worked, but the trouble was no convient time to take the day off in comp. time ever seemed to show up.

At my age 60 hrs a week is plenty and some times to much. No overtime goes back farther then the 330, the tax benefit was not to long ago 510.!

I understand give a little, get a little, but I am stuck with Win a few loose a lot. But I keep trying. Guys & gals, keep your eyes on your new contracts, look for the cola to replace your per deim!! When you sign a contract that reads duration and duration is 2 years or 1 year, the companys and our US
tax people read that as your residence after 12 months so you loose....

Yes there are only a very few of us out there, some where along the line we should have set up an international hiring hall, or clearance hall, maybe it is not to late to get together stick together, and set some minimums for this work.

Sorry, I get started it is hard for me to stop. As a foot note my mexfishguide comes from awhile back I was working in mexico and decided to work there on my own so i ran a fishing guide for awhile, but i am an ol red neck from Arkansas. :lol: :blahslap

Take care

Mexfishguide

:cheers

[TheJester]

ALL in all, dude, everyone needs to stick together. I would like to see more people like you involved in the threads on this site. I'm not saying every thread demands a response from every member, but lets get involved. It is reassuring though that even if everyone isn't replying to this thread, they are at least seeing the general consensus.

NO TO ROOMMATES.

What other topics we got out there that are bogus in OUR workplaces?

[Big Dave]

I am not in favor of having fellow workers as roommates. In addition to the many valid points put forth on this subject I would like to interject a line of thinking that has not been addressed. Psychological trauma. Social interaction studies for the past 4 decades have shown the people need to have personal space and time. When people are packed too densely the problems begin. they increase as the density increases. The symptoms include, illness, irritability, anti-social behavior in varying forms from depression to physical violence.

The bean counters that propose the roommate situation ignore the inevitable repercussions. The loss of work time, rapid rotation of personnel requiring increased costs to replace them, and the general lack of co-operation will cost the company far more than the few dollars expended to provide proper housing.

I for one do not plan to accept any contract that includes a roommate housing clause and I hope no one else will either. That is the only way to stop this ungly monster in its tracks before it gets too big to kill

[The Wild Rover]

Very well said my friend. To the point.

[HeadRat]

Kill it before it grows
You said it brotha. Good to see you make your first post on the site be for this topic. Spread the world.

[shanebo]

I agree with you all, roommates are out of the question. I have heard many Horror stories about roommates and I don't want anything to do with it. When a company makes you an Offer, be sure housing is the first question you ask. We have already given in to these companies enough, don't give in on this one. Remember Strenght in Numbers!!!!
Shanebo

[HeadRat]

Remember Strenght in Numbers!!!!You said it bro, and good of you to join us.

[shanebo]

Sorry to hear of Joe's passing. He was a really good guy. Joe and I shared many good times on the golf course. He will be missed in the Overseas Construction Business. Rest in Peace Joe.

[chilli_mac]

Yeesh! Raytheon does the same thing to people who spend the winter at McMurdo Station, Antarctica: just when a guy/gal has achieved crunchy post-toastiness after 6 months living alone in the dark, WINFLY comes and then everyone "gets" to share a room for 6 weeks. Excellent cure for friendship, eh?
And now there are those who think sharing an apt. here in Beijing (ooh! it has a small kitchenette!) is a good idea. :rockwoot:
Yeah, and amazingly, there yet remains the conundrum: how to go about fixing 'stupid.':banghead

[FalconJohn]

Hey Chilli Mac,

I was in McMurdo 1999 - 2000. We were told the same thing by the housing whore. Can't remember her name. Anyway, some of us contacted HQ in Denver. They replied that there is no rule anyone has to share a room when Winfly people arrive. After all there are tons of empty dorms. We found out that the bottom line was that the housing whore didn't want to "go to the trouble" of opening another dorm. The uppity ups in Denver didn't know she was doing this to everyone. The whole community raised complete hell!!!

No one had to share a room. They opened another dorm. The housing whore and her husband were secretly put on the first Winfly flight going back to ChristChurch.

This was the first winter that Raytheon did. Spread the word to those people.

[chilli_mac]

Greetings Worf (sorry, my Klingon is a bit rusty...)
Oddly enough, we tried to raise Holy Hell in '02, '03, '04, and '05 regarding that idiotic WINFLY room-mate policy, and The Word according to Mother Raytheon was that it wasn't "cost effective" to open another dorm early. Methinks they speak corporate mumbo jumbo, i.e., Housing doesn't have enough people to look after yet another dorm, probably because they're in rotation in the kitchen giving the (too few) D.A.'s a break from washing too many dishes.
All that repetitive motion stuff...:blahslap
But we are all aware of how it used to be 'back in the day'
:cheers

[mexfishguide]

I found the best part of Antarctica was New Zealand!

At least back in 58-59-60, it was.:lol:

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[TheJester]

58-59-60that girl had some HORRIBLE measurements.
:lol:

Just remember, "kids", the only way you are going to make a difference on this issue, is to stick together and NOT go to jobs that are doing this.

[mexfishguide]

jester!!! Be careful what you say, I read that, got tickled, :wtf and budweiser started coming out my nose.

Now I will say I have been kneewalking a time or two, but not quite that bad.

I enjoy a good joke once in awhile, thanks.

Take Care
Mex fish guide:cheers

[global]

Good one Jester............you still got it.:cheers :rockwoot: :lol: