Friggin' electrical wanna-be's

[The Wild Rover]

This is what happens when the so called "Electricians" get to install anything on these overseas sites....I am so pissed off, I wanna file a class action suit myself... :boid these a-holes

This is from the AP...
PITTSBURGH, Pennsylvania (AP) -- A U.S. House committee chairman has begun an investigation into the electrocutions of at least 12 service members in Iraq, including that of a Pittsburgh soldier killed in January by a jolt of electricity while showering.


U.S. troops in Iraq face an unexpected threat: electrocution by faulty wiring.

Rep. Henry Waxman, chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, said Wednesday he has asked Defense Secretary Robert Gates to hand over documents relating to the management of electrical systems at facilities in Iraq.

Staff Sgt. Ryan Maseth, 24, died January 2 of cardiac arrest after being electrocuted while showering at his barracks in Baghdad.

Also Wednesday, Maseth's parents filed a wrongful death lawsuit in Allegheny County Court against KBR Inc., the Houston-based contractor responsible for maintaining Maseth's barracks.

The lawsuit, which seeks unspecified damages and costs, alleges that KBR allowed U.S. troops to continue using electrical systems "which KBR knew to be dangerous and knew had caused prior instances of electrocution."

"I expected that if I lost one of my sons [in the war], it would be due to an [improvised explosive device] or firefight," Maseth's mother, Cheryl Harris, told The Associated Press on Wednesday. "I never expected to hear he would be electrocuted, that something so senseless happened to him."

An Army investigation found that his death was due to improper grounding of the electric pump that supplied water to the building, Waxman said. Maseth died after an electrical short in the pump sent a current through the pipes, the California Democrat wrote in his letter.


Chris Isleib, a Defense Department spokesman, said that the Pentagon has turned the matter over to the department's inspector general for a full investigation.

Since 2003, at least 12 service members have died in Iraq as a result of electrocution, according to the Army and Marine Corps.

In October 2004, Waxman said in his letter, the Army issued a safety alert that noted five soldiers had been electrocuted that year and improper grounding was a factor in nearly all of the cases.

The letter did not give the names of victims other than Maseth. Waxman asked that his committee be provided investigative reports on the dead soldiers and reports and communications regarding electrical grounding in military facilities in Iraq.

In a January 21 memo responding to questions from Maseth's family, the Army's criminal investigations division said the Chinese-made pump was acquired before KBR took over maintenance of the building and did not meet U.S. safety standards.

KBR declined to comment on the lawsuit Wednesday, but said it would cooperate with agencies investigating Maseth's death. The company was formerly owned by Halliburton Co., the oil services conglomerate once led by Vice President Cheney.

Harris said the military initially did not tell her that her son was electrocuted, and then told her he died "with a small electrical appliance in the shower." Only later did she learn the truth, she said.

The investigation was sought by Rep. Jason Altmire, a Democrat who represents a district north of Pittsburgh. E-mail to a friend

[Drewskie]

man that is bull shit! There truely are too many wanna b's im with you on that man! Wow, you know its sad, but it really doesnt supprise me. There are just way too many people who have that "I dont give a shit" adittude. Who go work overseas only to collect a pay check, they dont stop and think about there shit work that they do may kill some one in the near future. Its really sad, i cant even remember how many times i have gone back to fix someones F-ups and im just in "aw" on how fucked up things can be and the person who installed it is down the hall working on something else fucking up more shit for others to fix. Yea wow i could go on and on but non the less it is bull shit.

[mexfishguide]

Rotten son of a bitch - I can not say enough bad things about these people.1^%$@#@%*&.
I have done all I can to promote quality electrical work on these overseas projects, sent e-mails to many folks. I am one of the people that wanted us to pre qualify our "rat electricians ", hell fire - something has to be done!!!!!
There is absolutely no reason for death by bad wiring. NONE. We have discussed and cussed = poor tradesmen on this site several times. Qoute - "you pay peanuts you get monkeys" - dam sure the truth. :rockwoot:
I have seen to many times the not even close, electricians the companys send overseas - To " save money ". I have seen OBO folks on site that had no clue how to do electrical work, did not know bad from good, in any sense of the word. How these people get their job is beyond me?
We have from time to time some talk on site RE-Union electricians - well let me say if you served a 4 year inside apprenticeship - you will not get anyone killed by what you do!!!!!!!!!!!:rockwoot:
At this time let us re-think how to qualify rat electricians, so we can advise OBO and the contractors our people are qualified....
About now my BP is sky high and I just killed a 12oz.

Take care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[jcarp]

Yes yall are exactly right. That kind of shit should never happen. All the other companies out there should learn for this and always remeber.

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You pay like shit and thats exactly what you get.......

[paintermike]

Yes yall are exactly right. That kind of shit should never happen. All the other companies out there should learn for this and always remeber.

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You pay like shit and thats exactly what you get....... AGAIN!!!! MANAGEMENT!!!MANAGEMENT!!! MANAGEMENT!!!!I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THE FIRST OVERSEAS JOB i WAS ON THAT THERE WE'RE MORE WANTABBEES ON EVERY CRAFT AND IT WAS A SCREWED UP MESS. i DON'T KNOW WHY EXCEPT MAYBE THE BUDDY SYSTEM IN SWING!!!! I HAD A FRIEND WHO WAS WORKING IN IRAQ AS A PLUMBER WHO WAS IN THE TRADE SOME 40 YEARS AND HIS BOSS WAS A JEWERER BACK IN THE STATES, BUT THEIR BOSS AND THIS GUY WE'RE BUDDIES. My friend lost his job over the deal, but later was redeployed to another camp, and the other guy lost his job. I really think that these companies really need to take a hard look at who they are entrusting to run these projects.

[Gabriele]

Where were the electricians from, did they use foreign nationals or American'a or a combination.

[pensacola_niceman]

Most of you know I'm an Electrical Engineer working in Iraq. Several months ago, when we were building our LSA, we found that the pre-fab living hooches we bought off the Iraqi market were not grounded. What I mean is that there was NO ground wire whatsoever installed in the units. Fortunately, we had the foresight to check the buildings for this.

One of the responses from one inept member of our management was: "all you need to do is ground the trailer on the outside."

Any of you wireheads here must know that grounding the skin of the trailer is basically for last resort safety. Ground wires MUST be run to ALL electrical outlets inside a building. The ground must be either earthed right at the building location, or bonded to the ground of the power source.

Two points here: Always check the Ali-Baba shit you buy overseas. Don't allow some fatass manager prevent you from doing your job properly.

By the way, we heard about that soldier who died in January as it happened at Victory Base where our camp is located. What a ridiculous way for a brave soldier to lose his life.

[mexfishguide]

Bro - Please do not allow shit electrical work on your projects. It sounds like you will not, so, keep up the good work.

People who touch a metal building - trailer are such, right away want it grounded - I agree - but where is the hot getting to the skin? Guys do your best to correct the problem, not just treat the results.

No way in hell, will I let some asshole crowd me into making a dangerous installation.......:wtf If the work was done by others not x-pats, where was the dam inspector's.

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[paintermike]

Where were the electricians from, did they use foreign nationals or American'a or a combination. Americans!!! But they had such a mix of people in the trades ----sometimes I jus wondered if it was some sort of Govenment EXPERMENT!!! I didn't kno IT WAS MY FIRST OVERSEAS AND I WAS REALLY SURPRISED ON HOW FUCKEDUP SOMETHING COULD BE.. MY TAX PAYERS DOLLARS AT WORK!!! WHOOPIEEEEE!!!!

[HeadRat]

all I can do is shake my head. This is disgusting :sport002:

[mexfishguide]

Good Morning guys & gals.
I have recieved an e-mail from one of the fellows that helped us get rid on the OBO, williams and others of his staff
He is in Kuwait doing research at this moment, please give him plenty of information to work with.
I told him that the electrical work is one of our prime concern's.


Hey there ( my name )
I am in Kuwait at the moment interviewing contractors working in Iraq.
Any thoughts on people to meet, places to go?
I hope all is well with you.
All the best,
David Phinney
www.theroughcut.net

Get in here with me guys - He was, and can be, a big help to us in getting better qualified people on these projects. Let him know we are behind him in the effort to erase problems. Remember awhile back I used a lot of energy trying to set up a qualified ready crew of electricians ( an others ), that were pre qualified and ready to go about anywhere to get a project finished are started are corrected. That idea would have a good one to prevent these bad installations.

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

Camp-fish-drink beer
Work ? as long as it will not interfer with my normal days routine.:wtf

[LAID BACK SPARKY]

Brothers & Sisters

Had there been a"QUALIFIED ELECTRICAL INSPECTOR or SUPERINTENDENT on this project , we would't be reading about this uncalled for acident , and the very idea the military trying too cover some ones ass again!This pisses me off to no end. had a TURKISH construction Mgr threating to tear up our spec's and burn my NEC/IEC 2005 code book! and you wonder why you were sent home before the project was completed, however I managed too get my completion bonus thanks to an outstanding PM, not the Turkish deputy PM, who wanted to fire me, We held their feet to the fire and made the workers complying with the code! I have 43 years experience under my belt ,how the hell can some one sleep with this hanging over their head?

Let me leave so i can cool off.
Laid Back Sparky

[The Wild Rover]

Brothers & Sisters

how the hell can some one sleep with this hanging over their head?


Amen Brother. But it still happens on jobs with the other branches of the Govt.... Look at China. OBO standards my ass!!! It is a horror show, with duct tape and tie wire supporting conduit. This I know as a fact, the job is an entire maze of FMC. Fuck you wanna be's if you don't know what I mean by FMC...it just proves my point. Most wouldn't make a pimple on a Journeyman's ass...I hope they all choke!!!:boid It's a friggin shame that the Government lets this stuff happen, in todays age. Damn them all.

[mexfishguide]

I ask you folks to take a look at my last new thread "electrician".


I list a very few basic items a journeyman must know. How about the other electricians adding to the list. I think we should all be trying to improve our skills at all times.

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[Drewskie]

It doesnt matter how much an electrician knows or think he knows. Its his will to do good work that makes a good electrician. Everyone has those days that your pissed off at your boss or your hung over or your just ready to go home and sometimes, actually alot of times people so just say FUCK IT! and dont give a hundred percent. Its sad but alot of guys have this i dont give a fuck attitude and are only working for the paycheck. They dont care who is there 2 or 3 years later as long as they make their money all is good. Its this mentality that gets people killed. I dont know i could go on and on but it probably wont do any good there's too many electricians being brought up like this and something has to be done to get better qualified workers!

[toddlampiris]

Where were the electricians from, did they use foreign nationals or American'a or a combination.

While I was in Iraq (getting the shiite shocked out of me from ungrounded comm equipment racks) KBR had 1 American "overseeing" TCN's and LN's doing all the work. The "supervisors" could usually be seen cruising around the base in their Expeditions with rap music cranked...."overseeing work". At one site in particular our design called for a full grounding system, none was installed and the voltage difference from one cabinets exterior to the other was 90V AC @ 9A (Shocking when covered in sweat!!!).
:wtf

[mexfishguide]

In spite of hell, it will not get any better, as long as wantabe, and I know it all, prevails. I have spent a lot of time here on site begging folks to do what they can to improve their skills.
When I am on site and the co. sends me journeymen - that are not even good apprentices, I cull them into a different craft. True - maybe some are concrete workers, are rough carpenters, etc. I have none come to me and bitch about being moved.
If I am working with my tools and some one wants to put me in a crew of insulators he better have my airline ticket in his pocket.
I am about to give up trying, if you can not see you need training, then you have not a chance. If you come to my site as an journeyman electrician you dam well better be one.:wtf

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[voodoochild]

While I am not an Electrician but I do feel your pain. In the IT world you either get good hard working folks who know their stuff and do good work or people who cant figure out how to turn a monitor on. I often feel like companies hire just any random person off the street and say here go fix stuff or don't either way it doesn't matter.

Case in point my current place of work I am the lead site tech for over 6K plus Gov, Mil, Contract folks. And bust my ass making sure they are good to go. Hey they are protecting us it is the least I can do right.. However the place I switched from to my new contract I swear if you showed up for the interview you got hired. Didn't have to have any skills at all. Just show up and you are hired. And they always see me and say "Hey how do you do this or that" my response "You have to be kidding me right".

Sorry just had to step up on the soap box for a second. As you were..

[Duffin]

Its sounds like your talking bad about everyone in china. Is this how you really feel. :wtf

[The Wild Rover]

The electrical work in China looks like hammered shit. I would hate to follow that project as maintenance. We call that RE-WORK. Now, there are some good hands in China, but most of their efforts are blown away by the big steaming pony loaf of the mess called the electrical installation. Tie wire holding conduit, duct tape, and FMC everywhere...who the hell taught these people to bend conduit??? Since WHEN is conduit acceptable as a support for ceiling...or other conduit??? ANYWHERE??? Wiring changing color from box to box??!! Juunction Boxes with multiple phases without phase or cable identification or seperation!!! Since when is that allowed? And where is that allowed? What kind of an install is that? NOT NEC Standards! Not Journeymanlike Installation! :wtf

[paintermike]

The electrical work in China looks like hammered shit. I would hate to follow that project as maintenance. We call that RE-WORK. Now, there are some good hands in China, but most of their efforts are blown away by the big steaming pony loaf of the mess called the electrical installation. Tie wire holding conduit, duct tape, and FMC everywhere...who the hell taught these people to bend conduit??? Since WHEN is conduit acceptable as a support for ceiling...or other conduit??? ANYWHERE??? Wiring changing color from box to box??!! Juunction Boxes with multiple phases without phase or cable identification or seperation!!! Since when is that allowed? And where is that allowed? What kind of an install is that? NOT NEC Standards! Not Journeymanlike Installation! :wtf SPELLCHECK!!!!SPELLCHECK!!!! AGAIN!!!! MANAGEMENT!!!! IF THE MANAGEMENT DOESN'T HAVE THE SKILLS TO KNOW RIGHT FROM WONG WHY WOULD THE 19 YEAR OLD QC KNOW ANY DIFFERANCE!!! GO FIGURE!!!!

[The Wild Rover]

SPELLCHECK!!!!SPELLCHECK!!!! AGAIN!!!! MANAGEMENT!!!! IF THE MANAGEMENT DOESN'T HAVE THE SKILLS TO KNOW RIGHT FROM WONG WHY WOULD THE 19 YEAR OLD QC KNOW ANY DIFFERANCE!!! GO FIGURE!!!!
:lol: You are right Mike, and funny too...but ease back a little on the stress, bro.:cheers

[Duffin]

your not even there. There are some really good guys but you seem to put everybody in the same boat (not good as you). If were brothers,(and I know you have one) why degrate everyone!!! Yes what you say is true, There are alot of so called elect. that "could not hold my tools in a tomato basket" but to put everybody in the same cart is NOT RIGHT. Vent you anger at the job or the managment or whatever you want but stop degrating your "brothers"

[The Wild Rover]

First. Leave my brother out of it. Your problem is with me. Lets keep it that way. And you are not my brother if you intend to hold against him any liability for my opinions. He is his own man, and I would take offence for you to even talk about him here. It is completely out of context and unfair to him. It is wrong to even mention it.
And yes, my anger is aimed at management also for hiring less than skilled craftsmen in the first place. The "requirements" for the title of Journeyman electrician in Beijing wouldn't make a second year apprentice anywhere else...aka Electrical wanna-be's. I see tons of resumes sent daily, where these guys claim to be Journeyman Electricians...after working 2 years in Beijing????!! Give me a break. Before Beijing many were no where near the Electrical trade...so now they are Journeymen...many make this claim. I guess you see all those resumes, too huh? Let me tell you now, I've seen the contract long before the project got up to full capacity, and I have seen many versions since then...
Second. I work with many people, from OBO and for several other contractors that have business there. The electrial problems of that project are all over State. I have many skilled friends that have passed through that project, and have heard nothing but horror stories. You have no idea how much I see or hear concerning that project. I tend to believe the guys I trust...from OBO, different contractors, and many of the people I know in various other trades...you know the other skilled tradesmen, like HVAC, Carpenters, Plumbers... know when the other trades know or don't know their trade or what is going on...or when it is slopped in.
Third. If you read my post I state.."Now, there are some good hands in China". Did you want me to single every good hand out, by name?
Fourth. Deny that any of the problems that I have mentioned do not exist on a major level on that project.
Fifth. If you are there, what is the hourly rate? Yeah...I thought so. Many here tried to boycott that project, because of what it would do to the job market with so many unskilled guys getting paid peanuts...you could not even fill my "Tomato basket" with that type of pay. Get the paperboy to cash that check. I have seen the contract, and the pay. It is too low for skilled labor, so in many cases, they take what they can get...which explains the problems they are having.
Sixth. I know there are many good hands on sight, and I apologise if I painted the whole project with the same brush...I have worked on many projects, and know a lot of great guys that have worked there. Are they still my friends, yes...are some of them great mechanics, yes. The truth is that for many years to come, no matter how many good hands were on that site, it will never get free from it's stigma...The project will get done, no matter how much the good hands get frustrated and complain...in spite of them. The upgrades are already being planned.

[mexfishguide]

A coment here - "there are some really good guys" I imagine so.

However a good guy does not a journeyman electrician make.:wtf

Go to another thread and read my defination of Electrician then come back here and comment!

Take Care
Mexfishguide
camp - fish - drink beer - :cheers

WORK?? you have to be kidding:AR15

[Sasquatch]

Where did the love go

[Gabriele]

Blood all over this thread I guess. I do question though, if any tradesmen saw things not being done correctly (by the code books, etc) why let it continue on. Maybe painting, trim work, etc wouldn't kill a person, electrical work can, so even though there are attcks made toward "piss poor unqualified people posing as electricians" why didn't those who know better stop it, why didn't OBO stop it, you can't really blame it on the above who don't know, just follow what they are told to do.

[The Wild Rover]

I have Masters licence and yes I do not need be reminded about the skill level I am working with. I am new to the overseas game and not very happy. I also never quit a job. I will do my time and hope for the best. I just wanted to find out what my options were. Thank you.

Dufin, above is a quote of yours from another thread. I know you have many issues to deal with being that this is your first overseas project...I bet one of the issues is that there are guys on that project with no skill, what-so-ever, and they call themselves electricians...lets hope for all our sake, that nobody gets hurt on the premise that the wire color changes from box to box, or that the phase color at the panel does not match the phase color at the device.
The projects do get better, and the bad workers somehow get weeded out, but with a project like that, which is basically a clearing house for TS clearances, it will take the other contractors time before this will happen. Lets put it this way, I was running a large upgrade, on another project. The guys the contractor sent me as qualified electricians were:
1)A concrete finishing foreman from Moscow, that said he had installed conduit...he did not know what a minnerallac strap was, or the difference between 7/8" and 1-1/2" strut, let alone what 1" rigid and EMT were to be used for, or how to install it. He was great if I needed a broom finish on my sidewalk:banghead
2)One of the heavy equipment mechanic's from Moscow...he was a nice kid, but his extent of electrical experience was installing batteries in the Bobcat's, or replacing the radio fuse. He really f'd up the 555 bender...smokey.:banghead

The list goes on...needless to say, I put in my notice, quickly.
The job, the Director of Operations for the Company, and the Contractor went under by default...the job was completed, but by OBO taking it over...how much could have been accomplished had they insisted on skilled labor from day one. This process, by the way, is being repeated daily because of the unskilled few that clutter the ranks, and drive the working wage down, as they will work for anything just to get back out...and say anything just to get back out, even if it means lying on a resume.
Don't exclude the under-table tactics of some of these beltway bandit contractors...the dollar is the bottom line. Too bad ignorance and lack of concern for a quality product is what they stand for. Lets hope someone does not get hurt.

Where did the love go
:lol:

[Sasquatch]

I have drug up on jobs before that when I questioned the code they just said just make it work. I am so sick of hearing that. I take pride in my trade and will not stand for busting the code. The code was put into place for a reason.

[paintermike]

your not even there. There are some really good guys but you seem to put everybody in the same boat (not good as you). If were brothers,(and I know you have one) why degrate everyone!!! Yes what you say is true, There are alot of so called elect. that "could not hold my tools in a tomato basket" but to put everybody in the same cart is NOT RIGHT. Vent you anger at the job or the managment or whatever you want but stop degrating your "brothers" I was there, and the first think that I picked up on was how often the OLE WORD JUST FUCK IT was used. Well, I really don't like that sort of thing ,but I just tried to do my job and done it well!!! I worked just as hard the last day there, as I did the first!!!n I saw things and brought it to their attention, I mean since in their meetings how they stressed how they wanted things brought to light that we'rent correct or a safety hazard!!!! I could walk into a room and see things but when I told the Boiler maker foreman-- it pissed him off and caused him to be embarresed-- OH WELL MAYBE HE WAS IN THE WONG TRADE AS A FOREMAN!!! IT IS A SHAME THAT THERE ISN'T ANY CHECK ON THESE GUYS AND THAT THERE ISN'T ANY PRIDE FOR THE COUNTRY OR THE PEOPLE THAT WILL BE IN THE BUILDING!!! OH WELL!!!

[The Wild Rover]

Hey PainterMike. What was your hourly wage. Be honest, was it $20 per hour in Beijing?

[paintermike]

Hey PainterMike. What was your hourly wage. Be honest, was it $20 per hour in Beijing? Supposed to have been on the same as everybody else. Why??

Supposed to have been on the same as everybody else. Why?? I'm really not for sure but I think it was $25.00 hr US. Not bad HUH?? Especially when I did Concrete forming,framing,sheetrock, taping and priming.They did put us up in nice place and fed us good.Why is that where you are headed ?

[jcarp]

Supposed to have been on the same as everybody else. Why??

I'm really not for sure but I think it was $25.00 hr US. Not bad HUH?? Especially when I did Concrete forming,framing,sheetrock, taping and priming.They did put us up in nice place and fed us good.Why is that where you are headed ?


If that was me I would't tell anybody I was making 25 and hour, don't care if they put me up in the playboy mansion. I am a carpenter to and been overseas for a long time and I have never worked for and thing that low and if the salary was low they paid good per dim to make up for it. Not cutting you short but that is the reason the wages don't go up overseas because people taking jobs like that. Thats probley on of the main reasons why the job is so far behind. Sorry just needed to get that off my chest.

[Megga Watt]

:lol: $25.00 per hr :lol:
Now we know why wages are so low :banghead
Fricken wanna be's:2up

[Gabriele]

One way the contracts are/were packaged is the monthly rate for a 60 hour week, per diem, etc, which would make the package look good. A person could do all sorts of figuring to make the money look either good or bad.

One reason the company went with who they could get was because they weren't willing to pay higher per hour wages, my understanding with Beijing ( I had signed an offer to go there before I went to Cambodia), but they didn't take me for whatever reason, was that they would be providing meals so they reduced the amount of per diem to the worker, not sure if this happened or not.

I've been offered $30 to $35 per hour to work in Iraq for a short term contracts, whch I turned down, I've had some high dollar contracts offered, but then when you do the math on 7 12's, it doesn't look as good.

I think the bottom line is we each have to look after ourselves, part of that is to not jump on low balled wages for our skills, it's what we have to offer, but the other shoe goes to our needs, we have families to support, bills to pay and we take what we can to survive and it's hard to bash a person for doing so.

wages here in the states are getting worse too, companies trying to lowball skilled workers.

One story I have to tell, is my sister had the new AT&T to her home to convert to their Vverse (?) service, they sent out a dufous who told her he never passed the hiring tests, but got hired during a mass hiring phase because they needed workers. I had applied for positions, passed numerous tests and never got a call back from hiring managers, why, maybe age, maybe wages I would demand, maybe both or more, but the thing is they didn't even call me for further talks.

So, to me this is what these companies are willing to do, hire unqualifed people, pay lower wages and piss off their customers.
I'm not saying they shouldn't hire new, young people, they need to do that, but at least make them pass the enterance tests.

[paintermike]

:lol: $25.00 per hr :lol:
Now we know why wages are so low :banghead
Fricken wanna be's:2up Wait a minute---Just wait a minute here!! I am not the only one who took the job. I can only answer for myself here, but I was on my first overseas gig. I was kind of Really Proud and Really Excited to do something like this, and I didn't know that there was anything called the RAT PACK where I could find wisdom from guys like you. I didn't know that this was LOW PAY, OR THAT IT WASN'T SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF!!!I did get a TS/CLEARANCE out of the deal, which now I have learned that the Company that you apply for, will get it for you anyway. OH WELL!!!! Sure I would do things different now that I have been on them, but I will still try to hold on to my ATTITUDE TO DOING GOOD WORK, SHOWING UP EVERYDAY. I still don't understand why there are FOREMAN, SUPERVISORS , AND PEOPLE WORKING OUT OF THEIR TRADES??? I SAW ALOT OF flustration going on just because of that fact. I don't think that you can punish the ones who went there to do a good job for that. You know, I know that there are alot of people that you have LABELED AS WANNA-BEES, that maybe it was their first time on a project like this and maybe they haven't stood up and said anything about the things that we're or are going on, because they are in fear of losing their job and maybe have thoughts of fulfilling dreams of traveling and working on these sort of projects. I know that I raised alot of noise because of having to do things over--up to 3 and 4 times, and I would call their hand and try to get things fixed before I touched it, only to be yelled and cussed at , and the company at every safety meeting kept telling us to do, WAS TO CALL ATTENTION TO THINGS THAT WE'RE NOT CORRECT IN QUALITY OR SAFETY!! I had to do so many redoes on taping, because apparently the one's doing elec, we're either misinformed or didn't give a RAT'S ASS!!! When doing taping I had to carry my carpenter tools to cut out the holes for the sprinkler system sleeve and install it!!! Anyway bac to the WANNA BEES , YES I AM STILL A WANNA BEE--- I HAVE BEEN ON THIS SITE TRYING TO GET BACK INTO IT--NOT MUCH ON GIVIN UP!!! AND THAT'S ALL I HAV TO SAY ABOUT THAT!!!!

[Electrical Al]

When I went to Kuwaitt we were suppose to be there for two weeks comminision of shower units at army base. Turned out none of the wiring was installed , no grounds and where in the hell are the gfci breakers for those units. These are fail safe devicices for protection. We had to rip out all the wiring because units were built by local cheap workers supplied by Kuwait construction firms. Turned out we were there for six months. So why do they spend money to hire these goof balls and then hire us to fix it?????????

One more thing These units are inspected by rep of army corp of engineers. I tell you they are tough so where were they when those units were commisioned in Iraq.:banghead

[Boomer]

Wait a minute---Just wait a minute here!! I am not the only one who took the job. I can only answer for myself here, but I was on my first overseas gig. I was kind of Really Proud and Really Excited to do something like this, and I didn't know that there was anything called the RAT PACK where I could find wisdom from guys like you. I didn't know that this was LOW PAY, OR THAT IT WASN'T SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF!!!I did get a TS/CLEARANCE out of the deal, which now I have learned that the Company that you apply for, will get it for you anyway. OH WELL!!!! Sure I would do things different now that I have been on them, but I will still try to hold on to my ATTITUDE TO DOING GOOD WORK, SHOWING UP EVERYDAY. I still don't understand why there are FOREMAN, SUPERVISORS , AND PEOPLE WORKING OUT OF THEIR TRADES??? I SAW ALOT OF flustration going on just because of that fact. I don't think that you can punish the ones who went there to do a good job for that. You know, I know that there are alot of people that you have LABELED AS WANNA-BEES, that maybe it was their first time on a project like this and maybe they haven't stood up and said anything about the things that we're or are going on, because they are in fear of losing their job and maybe have thoughts of fulfilling dreams of traveling and working on these sort of projects. I know that I raised alot of noise because of having to do things over--up to 3 and 4 times, and I would call their hand and try to get things fixed before I touched it, only to be yelled and cussed at , and the company at every safety meeting kept telling us to do, WAS TO CALL ATTENTION TO THINGS THAT WE'RE NOT CORRECT IN QUALITY OR SAFETY!! I had to do so many redoes on taping, because apparently the one's doing elec, we're either misinformed or didn't give a RAT'S ASS!!! When doing taping I had to carry my carpenter tools to cut out the holes for the sprinkler system sleeve and install it!!! Anyway bac to the WANNA BEES , YES I AM STILL A WANNA BEE--- I HAVE BEEN ON THIS SITE TRYING TO GET BACK INTO IT--NOT MUCH ON GIVIN UP!!! AND THAT'S ALL I HAV TO SAY ABOUT THAT!!!!


Sounds like you are OK !!!! don't worry about some of the blowharts, just keep working hard
I think you will go far, each time you complete your project you will gain respect and wages will get better you now have one project overseas under your belt use what you have learned. Have Fun !

Do the best you can do.If you see a problem bring it up to your supervisor

if he does nothing he is the Jerk.and Remember Beer is not just for breakfast!!

[paintermike]

Sounds like you are OK !!!! don't worry about some of the blowharts, just keep working hard
I think you will go far, each time you complete your project you will gain respect and wages will get better you now have one project overseas under your belt use what you have learned. Have Fun !

Do the best you can do.If you see a problem bring it up to your supervisor

if he does nothing he is the Jerk.and Remember Beer is not just for breakfast!! PLEASE DON'T TAKE ME WONG EITHER ON THE SPARKIES!!! There are and was a BUNCH OF GOOD TRADESMAN THERE!!! 1 day I came into a SECURED AREA "WHERE YOU WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A REASON TO EVEN BE ABLE TO LOOK INTO THE ROOM"" KEY WORD SUPPOSED!!! THE FAN WAS TAGGED TO SOME REASON AND I NEEDED TO WORK IN THAT ROOM AND IT WAS HOT AND NO AIR, WELL I TOLD THE FOREMAN AT SAFETY MEETING BEFORE WE ALL WENT TO WORK AND HIS ANSWER WAS"DO YOU THINK THAT I AM GOING TO BE THE DUMBASS TO TALK TO THEM, WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING TO DO JUST DROP EVERYTHING AND COME FIX IT FOR YOU?? WELL, I ASKED HIM IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY IF "I COULD BE THE DUMBASS TO ASK THEM" AND HE SAID YEAH, SO I WENT TO THE SPARKIES AND ASKED!!! AND GUESS WHAT IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES I HAD A FAN!!! THANKS JONSG AND TCHISM!!! GREAT BUNCH!!! I do APPRECIATE how you took care of me time and time again!!! AND THANKS BOOMER I do my best---NOT AS GOOD AS SOME--AND NOT AS FAST AS SOME!!!

PLEASE DON'T TAKE ME WONG EITHER ON THE SPARKIES!!! There are and was a BUNCH OF GOOD TRADESMAN THERE!!! 1 day I came into a SECURED AREA "WHERE YOU WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A REASON TO EVEN BE ABLE TO LOOK INTO THE ROOM"" KEY WORD SUPPOSED!!! THE FAN WAS TAGGED TO SOME REASON AND I NEEDED TO WORK IN THAT ROOM AND IT WAS HOT AND NO AIR, WELL I TOLD THE FOREMAN AT SAFETY MEETING BEFORE WE ALL WENT TO WORK AND HIS ANSWER WAS"DO YOU THINK THAT I AM GOING TO BE THE DUMBASS TO TALK TO THEM, WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING TO DO JUST DROP EVERYTHING AND COME FIX IT FOR YOU?? WELL, I ASKED HIM IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY IF "I COULD BE THE DUMBASS TO ASK THEM" AND HE SAID YEAH, SO I WENT TO THE SPARKIES AND ASKED!!! AND GUESS WHAT IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES I HAD A FAN!!! THANKS JONSG AND TCHISM!!! GREAT BUNCH!!! I do APPRECIATE how you took care of me time and time again!!! AND THANKS BOOMER I do my best---NOT AS GOOD AS SOME--AND NOT AS FAST AS SOME!!!BUT ,IF LEFT ALONE I DO GIT ER DONE !!!

[Drewskie]

Im in the same boat! My first overseas gig was in Beijing. I didnt know that my wages were shit at the time, i was bringing home more than a grand a week, shit i was thrilled!!! I was extremely proud of myself to be working on a US Embassy in a foreign country, not to many people get to say that. But it was all a learning experience. I didnt know what Per Diem was and how much it should have been. I didnt know, at the time, that Zachry was pretty much bending us over. But you live and learn. Now i know what i should be making and what obligations the company needs to make for their employees. And i tell you what, i finally found something i love! I love having a TS clearance and have the ability to go work in foriegn land. Like i said not many people have that opportunity.

[Gabriele]

wages were crap? How much were you making and keeping before you went over? I had signed an agreement with Zachry to go there on completion of Pnom Penh, but they didn't take me or others frm that project. So consider yourself fortunate to be hired and given the opportunity to go and get your feet wet. As far as I know, no one from the company twisted anyones arm to sign and go. Could and should the wages been higher, most likely so, but you knew what was being offered and you took it. :2cents

Let me add, I turn down jobs that pay less then I can make sitting stateside, why be away from home and the family for less, I take jobs that pay less because it beats unemployment, but I move on when a company asks me to work for them at higher wages, simple as that. I enjoyed my trips overseas and I will continue if offered, but they money has to right.

[mexfishguide]

From the beging of the low ball China project> We have hashed it around, kicked it around, cussed it, discussed it, etc. etc.
We that are considered to be "ol timers" knew there would be time when the market would be flooded with folks from the shit project. I did not like what was done - when I heard 23 dollars and no per deim, well hell anyone could tell it was going to be a shit job. Now the people that accepted the pay and conditions, knew then how much they were worth and sold out for it. :wtf
If in your mind you are worth 20$us, then by all means sign for 20 and keep your mouth shut. If you think your worth as much as a full journeyman then do not settle for less then 30us. The firm was paying the same dam wage for working in the states as it was for working in China --- But it was paying a living per deim stateside!!
By looking around this site and reading what is and has been said, you have no dam excuse in the future to help the low ball bastard firms - make minimum wage workers of us.
Will I continue cussing you for going - don't think so - however if you guys do it again, I will have no use for you.!^$&)^@!(*&?>"*:AR15

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

Camp - fish - drink beer - work??? not a chance.

[jcarp]

Before that China job come along you did't have to call people to go to work, they called you and the wage was always pretty good. Now the damn market is flooded with a bunch of people that don't mind working for cheap. Every time I call someone about going to work they said the same thing. We have two inches of resumes from people that worked in China. Like Mexfish said one time is ok but don't do it again. If you want to work for a state side wage then go back to the states and work and don't screw up the overseas gig for the rest of us.

[Gabriele]

My point exactly, when I was offered to work on the Cambodian project I saw what the total monies would be, broke down er diem, wages, bonus's, when I looked at the wages, I thought they were low, but combining the package, the money was hire when facturing in the hours. I knew what I was getting, I accepted it, I never pissed and moaned about the money, just did my job. My pay went it like promised, my per diem was paid when requested, my apartment room was paid for, we had our own internet access paid for by the company, etc. Would I work them again, sure would, they treated me fine, I would have gone to China, but they never picked up my contract, because they were subcontracting the work I do out. As I have stated, I was offered less money to go to Iraq then I could make here in the states, I turned down Ecuador because I couldn't be garrunteed work past that project and I had a nice job going in Florida, unfortunitly for me, it ended about the same time Ecuador was scheduled for completion. The guys that went to China picked up a TS, but unless they continue to use it, it will go away. For me, the clearance demands more money because the government will be looking at me from time to time, that has to be worth something. At this time I don't expect any offers to go back overseas, why, mainly because I demand a higher wage, because I can earn the same here in the states.

I'm not saying wages in China were high or great, but those who took the jobs have ne beef about what tey earned, they knew going in what was offered. Maybe they didn't know what they should have asked for, but then they most likely wouldn't have been hired, now would they.

[The Wild Rover]

wages were crap? How much were you making and keeping before you went over? I had signed an agreement with Zachry to go there on completion of Pnom Penh, but they didn't take me or others frm that project. So consider yourself fortunate to be hired and given the opportunity to go and get your feet wet. As far as I know, no one from the company twisted anyones arm to sign and go. Could and should the wages been higher, most likely so, but you knew what was being offered and you took it. :2cents

Let me add, I turn down jobs that pay less then I can make sitting stateside, why be away from home and the family for less, I take jobs that pay less because it beats unemployment, but I move on when a company asks me to work for them at higher wages, simple as that. I enjoyed my trips overseas and I will continue if offered, but they money has to right.
That was well said.:cheers

[HeadRat]

Maybe they didn't know what they should have asked for, but then they most likely wouldn't have been hired, now would they.[/B]Nope, we covered it here extensively, they knew.

[Gabriele]

I AM SORRIEEEE BUT YOU ARE A REDNECK!!!!!

SORRRRRRRRIE!!! DAHHHHHHH!!!!!! NO SHIT SHURLOCK!!!!! I THINK WE LL AGREE ON THA!!!! NO SHIT!!!! I AM A WANNA BEEEE!!!! I WANT TO BE THERE!!!!


So, you take the offer, then whine about the wages later, did you stop and think that the only reason they took you is because people such as myself demanded better money because we were worth it, had the rats took the money they knew was too low for them to go, that you got an opportunity to work on such program, get a TS to use elsewhere, trouble is your TS is only good for a short time and only on TS projects and I suspect since they got you cheap, they will even cut the pay/wages lower, they know they got you cheap. Then you whine about the money, this is why companies don't want to pay more to me and others to work in Iraq/Afghanistan, then here in the states.

[jcarp]

You can't change the past so I wounld't worry about it now. But you can change the future. Everybody that work on that job now knows what to expect.

[paintermike]

You can't change the past so I wounld't worry about it now. But you can change the future. Everybody that work on that job now knows what to expect. You are right man.

[mexfishguide]

Paintermike and you other bros.

Same ol shit, they grab you by the balls, and yell turn your head and cough.

Forget China and look ahead!!!! You have to be aggressive to stay in this business if you are afraid of the telephone, your out of luck.

Take care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[voodoochild]

Mex you are right and you make good points.

[pensacola_niceman]

While I was in Iraq (getting the shiite shocked out of me from ungrounded comm equipment racks) KBR had 1 American "overseeing" TCN's and LN's doing all the work. The "supervisors" could usually be seen cruising around the base in their Expeditions with rap music cranked...."overseeing work". At one site in particular our design called for a full grounding system, none was installed and the voltage difference from one cabinets exterior to the other was 90V AC @ 9A (Shocking when covered in sweat!!!).
:wtf
I've been on R&R for the past few weeks, but will be going back to Iraq in a few days.

Improper grounding, or no grounding, is the biggest problem I've run into since working there. Never trust anything you purchase on the local market. We have received living trailers with no ground wire in them whatsoever.

Hearing about Americans slacking off on electrical installation is really disgusting.

[Drewskie]

hey plans changed for me, instead of DC im now going to Tokyo for a short remodel job. Has anyone ever been there????

[jcarp]

hey plans changed for me, instead of DC im now going to Tokyo for a short remodel job. Has anyone ever been there????


I've been hearing about that job for a while but did't know who had it. Do you have the contact info? I got a call for that same job for Greenway the other day but have not sign the contract yet. Still trying to decide, I've heard a lot of bad things about that job.

[emerse]

Putting a feather up your butt does not make you a chicken....

[The Wild Rover]

Fuck it Dude...lets go bowling.:cheers

[paintermike]

Fuck it Dude...lets go bowling.:cheers settle down now!!! Bowling??? Boy that's gettin kind of serious now isn't it??? How bout match shootin GLOCKS?? NOW THA WILL BREAK THE TENSION!!

[Megga Watt]

settle down now!!! Bowling??? Boy that's gettin kind of serious now isn't it??? How bout match shootin GLOCKS?? NOW THA WILL BREAK THE TENSION!!
:lol: Glock :lol: :nono:
Give me a good old 1911A1 and I will show you rookies how to shoot. :kib:

[paintermike]

:lol: Glock :lol: :nono:
Give me a good old 1911A1 and I will show you rookies how to shoot. :kib: Good gun to shoot!! I like bowling to though.

[mexfishguide]

The best way I know to handle the bowling deal!!! Roll them down the alley and use them for target practice.
Yes a 9mm glock is nice but when you hit a bowling ball with a simple 357mag it kind of disappears?
After the first round are so you have the place all to your self????:wtf

Take Care
Mex fish guide:cheers

[paintermike]

The best way I know to handle the bowling deal!!! Roll them down the alley and use them for target practice.
Yes a 9mm glock is nice but when you hit a bowling ball with a simple 357mag it kind of disappears?
After the first round are so you have the place all to your self????:wtf

Take Care
Mex fish guide:cheers I kind of like the 40& 45 round.Just something about it!!!

[voodoochild]

Well allow me to chime in here. If you like a good round that will do some damage look at the 357 Sig round. You could also go with the 62 Grain SS109 round. It has a steel core in the nose of the bullet and will penetrate 1/2 steel plate.

Just my :2cents

[paintermike]

Well allow me to chime in here. If you like a good round that will do some damage look at the 357 Sig round. You could also go with the 62 Grain SS109 round. It has a steel core in the nose of the bullet and will penetrate 1/2 steel plate.

Just my :2cents Oh well;
jus got me a 40 barrel to fit in my 357. the sig hurts these hands ,that hav been shootin to many Hiltis , plus the 40 is a cheaper round that the Feds and HI-POS have gone to. We we're shootin 40 target round and sometimes missin the targets and hittin 6" steel posts and it was makin quite a knot. I still like the "OLE UZI".

[mexfishguide]

I enjoy black powder as much as any, when you quit for the day everyone knows you have been shooting, because of the black face, hands, and arms.
Something to be said about the older pistols, I was passed down an ol but very nice 6 shot cyc. 44 colt. The thing had a shell/bullet the size of my thumb, makes a racket like an 105 recoiless. It was a hand full with ivory handles that turned yellow and look good.
In the 357, mine uses the 38 amonition nicely for shooting practice. I
miss my guns when out of the country.:doh

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[voodoochild]

Yes Mex this topic did swerve out of topic. But I can remember shooting my grandfathers old black powder guns. It was pretty cool when I was little they were the first guns I shot.

Now I have progressed to the precision long range rifles. That is where the fun is it takes some real skill to hit a small target at 1000 yds. Adjsut for wind, elevation, and all the variables. It does wear you out though.

[The Wild Rover]

With all this talk about guns, I hope you guys are not shooting the Electrical wanna-be's...although they deserve it.
And sadly, with this war, there are many ways to die, but electrocution because of faulty workmanship by unskilled labor is just plain wrong, it's the fault of the contractors, as well as the fault of the idiots that take the job claiming they are electricians...when they should be f*#king shoe-makers instead.
It's disgusting to think that a serviceman died because of an improperly installed system...a system gone bad obviously from design to the knuckle-dragger that installed it...on second thought, shoot the mother-f-ers!!!

[voodoochild]

Rover the problem is there is no real screening process to weed out the fucktards. See these companies get the contracts and see $$$ and say well we will just get Joe Blow over here and pay him peanuts. Keep the profit and if they do shit work oh well we got our money out of it. Or they hire some skilled workers to make it look just good enough to get by.

Just my :2cents

[paintermike]

Rover the problem is there is no real screening process to weed out the fucktards. See these companies get the contracts and see $$$ and say well we will just get Joe Blow over here and pay him peanuts. Keep the profit and if they do shit work oh well we got our money out of it. Or they hire some skilled workers to make it look just good enough to get by.

Just my :2cents Sorry guys --but I still believe it falls bac on the QC or the FOREMANS ON SITE.N AS A TAPER --I get to redo more elec stuff than anything!! Get walls ready for paint and then have to rip then out and most of the time it is just the simple stuff but on the other hand theres alot of what happened in Iraq that you cannot see in the conduit that somebody gets screwed up and then pow.

[mexfishguide]

I hate to get started on this again - friggin companys, tell the sr superintendents, we will use all local area workers and you should be willing to teach them the trade:wtf . There is no dam way to teach beginners that do not even speak english, and besides that do not give a shit!!!!
I believe the US Gov. has to be giving the firms some kind of credit for using forgein workers, it has to be. WHY - well when you hear of this co. and that co., loosing 50,000,000.00, 80,000,000.00, and even US100,000,000.00 on said project. That is all "bullshit". You do not loose 1 cool 100,000,000.00 on one project and stay in business.:rockwoot:
Guys that know me will tell you, I will walk in a minute you try to saddle me with layers of SHIT help. Some of you guys will remember for awhile a lot of us put on the back of our hard hats - K.O.B.A. in this case it reads
(kiss ol bills ass)
I have walked a many project, over pay, working conditions, benefits, & etc. It seems as if the newer construction folks do not have the "CAJONES"
to stand up for themselfs, if you are put with an asshole or 2, do not let your BP rise, fuck speak up.

Take Care
Mex Fish Guide:cheers

[Gabriele]

I know there's all this talk about being unqualified electricians and all and the buildings with no grounds to the outlets, etc, but shouldn't the blame be laid on those who plan and design and make the buildings. Of course the electrician should point out the defects and not move forward until the plans are corrected. So I wouldn't slam the unknowledgable electrician as much as I would the engineer designing the build.

[mexfishguide]

Blame???? Who????Most all us americam design engineers - think like a electrician when it comes to the ground. Now if the electrician doing the installation does not have anough "dam" knowdledge to PULL a ground regardless. Do not need him on site for sure.
You can bet your BUTT when I am there you will have a ground, ARE I will not pull it period! Makes no difference to me if we by wire by american or european standards. Some places the locals will try to bullcrap their way by giving you a "lesson" in 380 / 220 volts / 50cy,- 220v outlets, pull a dam ground wire and make it green.
I have had some major problems in Turkey over simple things - they could not or would not - understand the green wire - example - with 60+ 3 wire controll circuits - I ask for each device to have the same color hooked to the same terminal - simple - sure - But not a one was the same and green is a simple wire to them, for motor leads, power to outlets, are sometimes even a ground. As long as it would work the customer ( greek ) was happy.
We had a young guy 25 killed, because no one remembered what the emergency stop pull cord was for!!!!!! I left for 2 weeks until they agreed to pay attenshion.
Only a few years ago for you young guys, residentual bldgs. had no grd wire only a color and a white, all outlets were only 2 prong.:wtf

Take Care
Mex Fish Guide.:cheers

[Gabriele]

Mex, first off I agree with you on the wiring and I'm old enough to remember when electrical outlets had only two wires, no grounds and I even remember when installing telco wires under old houses and saw knob and tube, with cloth(?) covering and even some with the old knife switches, which were used to cut off electric to rooms. Not I'm that old to have seen it installed, only old enough to see it in place, some even still working. :nono:
But my question deals with and I know it's the last person that needs to stop it, but who signs off on #1 who orders the design and signs off, #2 why does the super allow it to even get to the electrician, #3 why should it have to rest on the electrician to stop it. I'm not saying you allowed this to happen, but I'm sure as in my trade that the electrical group has some bad eggs.

[paintermike]

Mex, first off I agree with you on the wiring and I'm old enough to remember when electrical outlets had only two wires, no grounds and I even remember when installing telco wires under old houses and saw knob and tube, with cloth(?) covering and even some with the old knife switches, which were used to cut off electric to rooms. Not I'm that old to have seen it installed, only old enough to see it in place, some even still working. :nono:
But my question deals with and I know it's the last person that needs to stop it, but who signs off on #1 who orders the design and signs off, #2 why does the super allow it to even get to the electrician, #3 why should it have to rest on the electrician to stop it. I'm not saying you allowed this to happen, but I'm sure as in my trade that the electrical group has some bad eggs. You kno Mex , I believe that the problem wif a person coming forward wif complaints is GREAT!!!but if the rest of the BUNCH is standin in the bac ground , sayin shit like you should turn him in , or if I we're you, I would jus beat the shit out of him,waitin to see what happens when the fire works start happenen is a bunch of crap!! I think we all kno by now anyway the one's who hav been in their trades for a while should kno WRIGHT FROM WONG AND HAV THE NUTS TO STAND UP TO IT. BUT NOOOOOO!!!! WE want to make buddies and keep a job!!!

[drifter]

You kno Mex , I believe that the problem wif a person coming forward wif complaints is GREAT!!!but if the rest of the BUNCH is standin in the bac ground , sayin shit like you should turn him in , or if I we're you, I would jus beat the shit out of him,waitin to see what happens when the fire works start happenen is a bunch of crap!! I think we all kno by now anyway the one's who hav been in their trades for a while should kno WRIGHT FROM WONG AND HAV THE NUTS TO STAND UP TO IT. BUT NOOOOOO!!!! WE want to make buddies and keep a job!!!

Are you typing wif peanutbutter in yer mouf?

[The Wild Rover]

Are you typing wif peanutbutter in yer mouf?
That was funny... I fink so!!!

[mexfishguide]

First - yes - the super. should catch these things before it gets to the crews - before the super. - the take off person should catch it quick - no green wire what the hell? That said, to me at times on the job believe it are not, I get to busy to check the circuitry, I tell the crew supervisors to be sure and let me know if something is not right. :rockwoot: Plus, if I am walking the floor and see wire pulls with no green, I get the supervisor aside and ask him about it???? These overseas projects, I do my best to work close with the crew supervisors and depend on them for their help and knowdledge. If I do not trust them enough to allow them a lot of freedom to do as they know! then I do not keep them as a supervisor. I truly believe in trying to learn something each and every day. And at the same time on the job we have to work together, sure some are journeymen, some are foremen, some are superintendents, don't matter we are on site to install an acceptable, safe, completed project.

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[pensacola_niceman]

Blame???? Who????Most all us americam design engineers - think like a electrician when it comes to the ground. Now if the electrician doing the installation does not have anough "dam" knowdledge to PULL a ground regardless. Do not need him on site for sure.
You can bet your BUTT when I am there you will have a ground, ARE I will not pull it period! Makes no difference to me if we by wire by american or european standards. Some places the locals will try to bullcrap their way by giving you a "lesson" in 380 / 220 volts / 50cy,- 220v outlets, pull a dam ground wire and make it green.
I have had some major problems in Turkey over simple things - they could not or would not - understand the green wire - example - with 60+ 3 wire controll circuits - I ask for each device to have the same color hooked to the same terminal - simple - sure - But not a one was the same and green is a simple wire to them, for motor leads, power to outlets, are sometimes even a ground. As long as it would work the customer ( greek ) was happy.
We had a young guy 25 killed, because no one remembered what the emergency stop pull cord was for!!!!!! I left for 2 weeks until they agreed to pay attenshion.
Only a few years ago for you young guys, residentual bldgs. had no grd wire only a color and a white, all outlets were only 2 prong.:wtf

Take Care
Mex Fish Guide.:cheers

It's too bad the world can not agree on color codes. Here in Iraq you never know what color standard the cable will adhere to until it arrives on site. Then you have to use tape to make the colors consistent. Green or green w/yellow stripe is always ground though.