Project Managers?

[HeadRat]

Here is a new one for the Council, and believe me, I'm all ears.

The Question Is:
How do you feel about letting Project Managers in here freely.

On one hand, they are workers looking for jobs too.

On the other, they can be considered extensions of HR and possibly freely recruiting?

What do you all think?

[The Wild Rover]

Well,
Of all positions in the construction field, the PM is one of the hardest. But lets put this in perspective.

1) He gets all the perks...housing, holidays, transportation, family status, and good pay.
2) He gets all the glory, or in some, but not many, all the pain. His job is to bring in experienced, skilled craftsmen, and build.
3) He is a company man first, holding NO loyalties to OBO, or to the Tradesmen, and especially the Sub-contractors. Most will tell you what you want to hear, and do what is right for the company anyhow. This is part of his job.
4) He will more than likely have his next job lined up BEFORE the finish of his current job. He will take who he feels is right with him...regardless if they are worthless, or truly skilled.
5) He can shift the blame, or the glory.
6) He can make you, or break you.
7) Most are honest men/women. Some are not. Again, he is out for the company FIRST. Many are for themselves first, although rare.
8) Most were tradesmen once, but not all. Sometimes it is better to have an experienced hand...other times it could break the job, and that sucks.
9) Many only care about taking care of friends, and that can ruin the job. Ever work for a PM's buddy? It could make a simple job last forever, and ever.

I could continue, but I think you follow me. They should, in my opinion, be no better than us, the tradesmen and tradeswomen that work the jobs. The men and women that travel like gypsies from job to job, country to country, in search of that one great job. Keep the PM's on the same set up as us, and I believe it will all work out.
The Wild Rover

[TMMCD]

Once again, The Wild Rover, has hit it on the head. Some companies offer new hire recruitment money which is another perk for PM's. Just remember that this site contains privledged information, lets not give it away.

[TheJester]

Personally, I see them, yes, as part of the big spinning cog that makes up a job, but how many PM's have come to you asking if you knew of anyone in a craft they were looking to fill?

That, to me, makes them an extension of HR. I would be leary.

Also, this IS a Council Decision, but everyone can put in :2cents

[wkdivr]

:cheers That's a hard one to call, as I agree with everyone's opinions, so far.And all valid points.

[RatBrother]

Hell no, Right off the bat !
I agree totally that there is an Awefull lot of Priveledged info on this site, Like no where else in the world or on the internet.
Second, they are a direct extention of the H. R. folk.
Ever see a P.M. over ride an H.R. guy, and hire the people he wants ???
I HAVE, It is a very slick move. Impressive actually. Well Orcastracted, like watching syncronized swimming.
Back to the point.
The P.M. puts his pants on one leg at a time , just like the F.N.G.
On top of that, here lately,,,, The P.M. HAS BEEN the F.N.G.

I mentioned this on another thread, But as a refresher, I believe the best P.M.'s are the ones with both , the Hands on, and an advanced education.
I have seen all the configurations.

Just because you came up thru the ranks of the workers, Don't make you a good one.
Just because, you went to College, got the degree, and never touch a tool, Don't make you a bad one.

That is my :2cents :fauches: This one is cool too:zbj:

[sparky58]

Rat Brother said it well, if you let them in , say goodbye to your privacy and freedom. Having company reps on with restricted viewing, yeah good idea. PMs, no way:nono:

[Pops]

yeah, what Sparky said.

[Junior]

If I were onsite somewhere, and wanted to get the word out to the Rats that, hey, this is pretty F'ed up right here... I'd be a lot more reluctant to do so if the guy who can make our break you with a company was reading it. I say let one of them start their own website. They can sit around and talk about the lazy overpaid CAW's and which putters to carry to different parts of Africa.
:rockwoot:

[mexfishguide]

I do not think it is a good idea to give them free rein.

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[Old guy]

How would you stop them?

[Incognito]

There is also,
One classic case, of the hands having enough, B.S. and getting the general Forman run off, and a new one, hand picked by them and totally running the project. Now that was fun.

[roadhard]

Old Guy said it right,
How would you stop them from joining?
Its Not going to happen......Not sure why this is even up for discussion?

[alky]

Old guy hit the nail on the head!! Indeed, how would you stop them?

This site is open to all for a minor fee and a brief description of himself. Who among us knows all the P.M. s on all the various sites around the world? How can it be prevented when a man may be a PM on one project and a supervisor or even a hand on the next job?
How many project managers are already signed on as members? With most members using a "handle" who knows just who is who?
Perhaps the shadow do!!

[The Wild Rover]

Well,
Of all positions in the construction field, the PM is one of the hardest. But lets put this in perspective.

1) He gets all the perks...housing, holidays, transportation, family status, and good pay.
2) He gets all the glory, or in some, but not many, all the pain. His job is to bring in experienced, skilled craftsmen, and build.
3) He is a company man first, holding NO loyalties to OBO, or to the Tradesmen, and especially the Sub-contractors. Most will tell you what you want to hear, and do what is right for the company anyhow. This is part of his job.
4) He will more than likely have his next job lined up BEFORE the finish of his current job. He will take who he feels is right with him...regardless if they are worthless, or truly skilled.
5) He can shift the blame, or the glory.
6) He can make you, or break you.
7) Most are honest men/women. Some are not. Again, he is out for the company FIRST. Many are for themselves first, although rare.
8) Most were tradesmen once, but not all. Sometimes it is better to have an experienced hand...other times it could break the job, and that sucks.
9) Many only care about taking care of friends, and that can ruin the job. Ever work for a PM's buddy? It could make a simple job last forever, and ever.

I could continue, but I think you follow me. They should, in my opinion, be no better than us, the tradesmen and tradeswomen that work the jobs. The men and women that travel like gypsies from job to job, country to country, in search of that one great job. Keep the PM's on the same set up as us, and I believe it will all work out.
The Wild Rover
I think my opinion from the very beginning of this post still stands...either keep them on the same set up, or a section just for them so they can supply their own remarks, but I prefer to keep the members names, and locations private, but if you give the PM's access, what's to prevent a company man from retaliation.

[Incognito]

How would you stop them?

I think you guys are missing something here. This is the Headrats site. and nothing is going to get past him. That is what the name implies.
I don't think he / she /them would allow it to happen. Total veto power, I saw it on another thread.
even if someone was trying to private message, say , every member, I am sure the Switch board would light up like a freaking Christmas tree.
Don't sweat the small stuff !!!

Just my :2cents