Craft Importance

[HeadRat]

This should stir up some conversation. :cheers

[The Wild Rover]

The most important TRADE, is the electrical TRADE. Electricians have the most training, highest skill level, we affect every other trades progress, and we are paid the highest...HVAC needs us, the carpenters need us, the plumbers, and fitters. Electricial drawings have all the other trades information on them....from toilets to walls, our juice is in it, near it, around it, and run it. When was the last time you saw a fitter thread his pipe by hand? Or a carpenter cut his boards by hand? There is NO section of the project without the influence of the electrical industry. Everyday, our trade changes, materials are upgraded, and what was old is now more and more technical. I have no ill will towards the other trades, because all men are brothers, but the electricians are the highest skilled, and best paid for a reason.
Stirring it up,
The Wild Rover
25 years as an Electrician

[TheJester]

The most important TRADE, is the electrical TRADE. Electricians have the most training, highest skill level, we affect every other trades progress, and we are paid the highest...HVAC needs us, the carpenters need us, the plumbers, and fitters. Electricial drawings have all the other trades information on them....from toilets to walls, our juice is in it, near it, around it, and run it. When was the last time you saw a fitter thread his pipe by hand? Or a carpenter cut his boards by hand? There is NO section of the project without the influence of the electrical industry. Everyday, our trade changes, materials are upgraded, and what was old is now more and more technical. I have no ill will towards the other trades, because all men are brothers, but the electricians are the highest skilled, and best paid for a reason.
Stirring it up,
The Wild Rover
25 years as an Electrician

AMEN BROTHER

[Bontom]

Face it, it can't be done without us. Engineers, well it looks good on paper. But in real life it looks like woven pipe.
bon

[The Wild Rover]

It would take a five year apprenticeship, which is now the industry standard for electricians, for a person to become a journeyman electrician. 5 years of school, and on the job training. And this is just for journeyman level. Try what I did...a 4 year IBEW apprenticeship, 4 years of college at the same time, another 2 year apprenticeship of school and OTJT to become a lineman and get that license, and then another 1-1/2 years of school for the low voltge license, and then a year for the Masters test(which is a joke, by the way). Anyone that calls themselves a "Master Electrician" has basic estimating, and basic business skills. I have seen at least 30 so called "Master Electricians" that couldn't tell you who Mr. Benfield is!!! Engineers couldn't carry my tools in a tomato basket. Hell, I have to show most of the engineers HOW to do the job. All drawing and Auto-CAD, no field skills...Go back and tell the project manager the job is in the hole, due to YOUR lack of layout, lack of craft coordination, lack of material, and you don't know why the electricians are angry at the fucked up drawings from guys that are an office apart but cannot seem to communicate about what system goes where ...yeah right, that would happen. When pigs fly.
It would take me 10 years to teach you my job, but for you to teach me yours, 2 weeks. Cold Facts, because I have done that job many times. 9 times out of ten, I have to un-fuck your puzzle to get the system to work, so all crafts can get their systems in. What other TRADE DOES THAT??? Not many. Most of the time it's the sparkies and other skilled TRADESMEN that do it in the field, with the coordination of the OTHER SKILLED TRADES. Have some more coffee and doughnuts office boy. Go check your e-mail and play some more computer solitair.
The Wild Rover

[TheJester]

...couldn't carry my tools in a tomato basket...
My favorite all time Wild Rover quotes for many years now. :LolLolLol

[HeadRat]

:LolLolLol Management :LolLolLol
Just kidding. :lol:
I know, I know, chalk me up for one :kib:

[Anywhere]

it takes everyone working together as a team to get the job done :cheers

[RatBrother]

You can Crap in the dark with no running water,
But, you don't wanna do it more than Once.
Who are you gonna call first ???
It aint the guy toting the tomato basket , Is it ??????

[pacificdiver]

it takes everyone working together as a team to get the job done :cheers

:2cents Everyones job is important! Thats why they need them???
But the most important job probably would be Management...
Without management it would be mismanaged they wouldn't have the best and the most skilled wouldn't be there nor would the project ever succeed???

I think we need to get back on the subject and not go somewhere else... :blahslap :blahslap :blahslap :wtf

Most Important Craft on a Jobsite? All crafts...and it takes everyone working as a team to get the job done..I'm with you brother. :cheers To the team members

[tavarich]

Wow what a statement to make. I'm new to the site and trying to figure out what its all about but it sure as hell aint unity. Your ego must out weigh your balls by a very large margin. Why would you guy's even want to ask who is the most important on the job, it doesn't make any sense to try and start a pissin match in your own back yard. When I signed up for this it sounded like a great idea and a great place to express our dissatisfaction with the companies that tend to regard us as cattle. I think you dropped the ball on this one :moon

[TheJester]

...Without management it would be mismanaged they wouldn't have the best and the most skilled wouldn't be there nor would the project ever succeed???
You must be new to overseas work. Management usually screws it all up. IE: doesn't Astana have somewhere near 150 management people ON SITE? :kib:

... trying to figure out what its all about but it sure as hell aint unity.
Nah, we are all in it together and for the same reasons you talk about. It has been US vs THEM forever, but the power seems to be waining back toward US each day this site is up. :cheers

...Why would you guy's even want to ask who is the most important on the job, it doesn't make any sense to try and start a pissin match in your own back yard. When I signed up for this it sounded like a great idea and a great place to express our dissatisfaction with the companies that tend to regard us as cattle. I think you dropped the ball on this one :moon
Nah, it isn't like that. Not a pissing match, just starting a conversation. I think all crafts are important, but they all have to be willing to work together. I love your avatar though. :cheers

[HeadRat]

When I signed up for this it sounded like a great idea and a great place to express our dissatisfaction with the companies that tend to regard us as cattle. I think you dropped the ball on this one :moon
And that it is. You can voice any opinion you like here. Good/Bad, positive/negative, or for/against. You have ALMOST total freedom of speech here.

I say ALMOST because the one thing that will NOT be tolerated here is "flaming". "Flaming" is when you blatantly attack other users. Friendly joshing and kidding is fine, but going over board, will be dealt with swiftly. Even blatant bashing of companies is not allowed. You can freely voice your opinion of what is going on, but they are users here too, so they carry the same rights normal users have.

However, that doesn't mean you can't kid around, or give someone a hard time, just as it is on any job site. Just be friendly about it.

In the end, the basic goal of this site is to get the RIGHT info you need. Not the old smoke and mirrors some HR people are known for, IE: "...no no no, you don't need to bring any tools with you....the place is GREAT...we'll discuss living conditions when you get here.....that is as high as we can go with the pay rate....and more".

Overall, RPI is here to put the information back in the hands of the workers that actually DO the job by creating platform for workers ON SITE to let you REALLY know what is going on there. I don't think I need to use the old cliche of "information is power", but it is.

Rat Pack International, putting the POWER and the MONEY back into the hands of the Workers. I think if you read more of the site you will see that not only is there no "pissing match", but there is almost 100% unity. Don't judge the site by one conversatoin poll, please. It would be like looking at the poll about whether the Colts will go undefeated or not and saying the site is all about sports. :cheers

[global]

:fauches: All the trade crafts are obviously very important to any job, but without good management the ball stops rolling.

[pacificdiver]

You must be new to overseas work. Management usually screws it all up. IE: doesn't Astana have somewhere near 150 management people ON SITE? :kib:


Nah, we are all in it together and for the same reasons you talk about. It has been US vs THEM forever, but the power seems to be waining back toward US each day this site is up. :cheers


Nah, it isn't like that. Not a pissing match, just starting a conversation. I think all crafts are important, but they all have to be willing to work together. I love your avatar though. :cheers

Yah...I guess I'm kinda new in the overseas work. I've only been overseas a little over 10 years tax free! :doh

[TheJester]

just given you some shit, dude, it's all good. :cheers

[Megga Watt]

Sorry dude without electricians these managers would not be able to surf the internet or make a cup of coffie. Electricians support everyone and we are porud to do so. :AR15

[Gabriele]

The Painter, cause he makes it look good, covers up all the crap, so I'd say the painter

[mesquitoe]

:2cents No jobsite becomes a finished product without all the trades.
Some trades require more training than others.
The UA Plumbers.Fitters,HVAC apprenticeship is 5 years of going to trade
school evenings and OJT during the day. I know because I went thru the
apprenticeship 25 years ago and I teach at the school now.:usa:
In Texas you must have 8000 hrs as an apprentice before you are elgible to
take the Journeymans test, then you must take continuing education every
year to keep your license.
I went from Apprentice to Journeyman to Foreman to Superintendent to
Project Manager and have started and completed many commercial projects
along the way in the states and overseas. None of them would have been completed without all trades.:cheers
Some tradesman have bigger egos than others, probably caused by being shocked to many times.:moon

[Pops]

I am going with "you gotta have them all" because I don't care how good your electical is, if there aint no floor, ceiling, walls, etc, where you gonna hang your pipe? I have been around a bit, and I have seen this "mine is better, bigger, longer, fatter, thinner...etc. than yours" a million times. Big boys trying to prove to others what they should be self confident enough about not to mention. You know you're the greatest thing ever dropped on earth, you don't have to tell everyone about it. Show a little class and be modest like us Telecom types!

[RatBrother]

I have said this before on another thread or poll,
I Don't care who you are,,,,, You should be able to Crap in the Dark or pee without walls around you,, But when that HOLE in the floor stops working , Who you Gonna call after hours and pray that he gets there SOON ????
It aint a guy with a paint brush or a Fluke meter is it ???
:ralph:

[Pops]

It ain't all about who is the most important, anyway, there are lots of other considerations, beginning with "where is the nearest cold beer?" and "why don't electricians have a pencil holder in back like plumbers?" and "you know you could have been taller than that if you had just put enough effort into it."
:cheers

[coastal69]

My Personal Pet Peeve on any Job-site is Primadona's. Everyone needs to know as much as they can about as many trades/crafts and the project plans as they possibly can. If tradesmen are not working together, I can guarantee the project will be fucked up for everyone. Unfortunately nobody is teaching "Professional Responsibility and work ethics" anywhere. As long as this continues, we will continue to have to work for fucked up contractors on fucked up projects.
I have only seen a couple well planned out and designed Govt. construction projects the past 5 years. It is rare that I can't find design errors on every single page of a set of bid documents. With all the cut and paste design going on the same errors keep reappearing and the contractor has to fight to get paid to fix it. No effort is made to edit and write spec's to match a projects needs or common construction practices. When design conflicts/errors are brought to light, nobody works together to resolve the issue and when a change is made, no notification is sent out to the various trades.
When everyone on a project is working just to get their paycheck and go away the end result is fucked. If people don't stick around from start to finish on a project they never learn what they have done wrong during rough in. All electricians need to learn as much as they can about the other trades so they know how to rough in shit right the first time. All of the tradesmen need to be able to correctly read every page of a set of prints. Not just the E or M sections. Learning a skilled trade does not end with your journeyman's card. Just like getting a driver's license doesn't make you an Indy Race car Driver.

[mexfishguide]

Now look here guys, I have told you more then once, this is no contest, the electricians are the most important and work the hardest, example some days we have to carry around a big heavy light bulb and have to screw it in. You talking about a hard day. And we do deserve our other field name "prima Donna ".:wtf ALL IN FUN.

I did spend a lot time to arrive at where I am, where's that?:doh

I will buy the next round, I know a couple plumbers I can borrow 20 from.:rockwoot:

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[Pops]

not a competition? I thought the poll was "which craft is most important".
When we all know the most important craft is finding cheapest, nearest, best, cold beer. Let's just all agree the electricians need to hear it most.
And I would buy the first round for any damn one of them!:cheers

[pacificdiver]

not a competition? I thought the poll was "which craft is most important".
When we all know the most important craft is finding cheapest, nearest, best, cold beer. Let's just all agree the electricians need to hear it most.
And I would buy the first round for any damn one of them!:cheers

Why look and buy?? :wtf It takes a special craft to fab and assemble the components to make the beer.... without electricity...If thats important...then you know which craft that is...and the beer is free!:wgaf

[Incognito]

Why is it that no-one else can read set of blueprints ???
Or take the time, to ask questions ?

[Sasquatch]

How many of you have been on a jobsite that the materials were wrong or no materials? I think the most important trade is the take off person and the person who orders the materials and then follows up on what was shipped. Unfortunately there isn't too many qualified people in that position. You don't get the right materials it affects all trades.

I got the privelage to see that a basket weaver was on the job in Albania. Some guy braided the ground wires in the power panel.

I see a back patting on here and anyone who has to toot his own horn, maybe there was a reason he shouldn't of been invited to the party.

[Pops]

after mumbling to myself for a few hours, I think you have a good point, Sasquatch.

[tbeor]

I never see Welder on the "Most Important" craft surveys. Welders, and I'm not talkin pipeliners here, usually have to fix or produce everything the office engineers didn't think about when putting the orders in. Not to mention all the requests for barbeques and special b.s. stuff.:rockwoot: Welders may not be as High and Mighty as electricians, but I think this is a very important craft on these jobs.

[Pops]

Of course you are right, why when we ran out of fiber connectors, the welders just whipped us up some. And you should have seen the cat6 patch cords they welded up for us....and you guys in Bulgaria remember when you ran out of emt and the welders whipped up alll that ridgid 1"!!!

[tbeor]

Oh forgive my absurd remarks, Mighty Electrician.
I am ashamed.

I try not to do so much for electricians, but the civil and pipe guys keep us welders busy making all this crap that should have been ordered or things they say they needed yesterday.

[Gabriele]

Oh forgive my absurd remarks, Mighty Electrician.
I am ashamed.

I try not to do so much for electricians, but the civil and pipe guys keep us welders busy making all this crap that should have been ordered or things they say they needed yesterday.
Pops and I are teleco types, I think he was just bustin your chops. You don't see telecom on the list either.

[Pops]

exactly

[orcasound]

I have worked with many of you and have wired and laid pipe in places that I didn't even know had places but I have to agree with those that have voted for all the trades as it is difficult to attach pipe to walls that are not there or ceilings that have not been poured and even pulling wire through manholes from building to building that don't exsist. But...Yes we are smarter, better looking, and great personalities and everyone wants to be us....Smile.....but Let's face the facts......

[OLD DAWG]

Well folks, here is how I see it. There is no such thing as the MOST important craft on the job. If a particular craft is needed on the project, then it follows that the project can not be completed without a craftsman on the job. A craftsman skilled at their trade is absolutely invaluable and irreplaceable when it comes to getting their part of the job completed. Since all crafts required for the job, must finish their part in order for the project to be completed, no one craft is expendable. Therefore no craft has more importance than the other.
Now let me say something else. Anytime a poll asks you to choose, which is the MOST important, from a list of options and gives you as one of the options, ALL, then it is obviously a joke. Who came up with this silly ass question? Seems to me that some one just wants to get the tradesmen bickering and blustering at each other. You know how the story goes ” hell a monkey could wire a building”, “what‘s to know? Shit rolls down hill” and all the other cliché’s. I think someone is sitting up on the Rat Pack front porch shooting bullets at our feet just watch us dance. Only some joker with a sense of humor would do such a thing. Wait a minute, a joker? A Jester is a joker. Jester, are you having fun with us? HAHAHA
Well keep it up because I really like hearing the opinion’s of these Rat Pack brother craftsmen. I have to admit I have learned a lot from them already. And one more thing, I have to agree with Orcasound, we are smarter and better looking.HA See you on the next one

[pacificdiver]

Whats up Spanky n Olddawg!!! PD here...ya'll make me wanna be an
electrician.....NOT!!:lol:

:cheers

[mexfishguide]

PD

If you notice on another frigging thread, if you want to be an electrician go buy,( borrow is better ), a 12 bit screwdriver and you are automaticly a master electrician. Sound easy enough, oh if you can buy them on credit get me one also, I need to get out of this shit i'm in.:wtf

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[Rat Fink]

I think in my next life I would like to be whats called all trades. Which means knowing of nothing and master of nothing. HAHA
Electricians do their best work in the DARK:rockwoot:

[pacificdiver]

Wait a minute Mexi? I thought I heard about that before that thread...4 is standard US, philips and flat both sizes...4 is British standard??? and the other 4 is metric. They also offer specials for electricians like the color coded channel locks that look like the color of snips except...blue is US, red is metric, yellow is British. Guess what? They were all sold out!:lol:

:cheers

[paintermike]

Dear Rats;
I voted today on the most recent poll about THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB on site. I voted that the management was---- Due to the fact is if you have a Management Team that isn't Professionals it will affect the whole Project, causing all kinds of problems. There will be --- FLUSTRATIONS, THINGS HAVING TO BE REDONE, NO QUALITY ON JOB. When things aren't being run properly PEOPLE TEND TO GET THAT DON'T GIVE A F___K IDEA. I don't really think that the CRAFTSMAN on these projects have that attitude until the their LEADERS SHOW THAT TYPE OF ATTITUDE!!! AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT!!!!!!:kib: :nono:

[Sasquatch]

Painter Mike, I thought you would say painters. Because at the end of the job paint makes what it aint.

[paintermike]

REALLY!!! But then again I really do think that the FOUNDATION is the most important---SUPERVISION!!!!

My Personal Pet Peeve on any Job-site is Primadona's. Everyone needs to know as much as they can about as many trades/crafts and the project plans as they possibly can. If tradesmen are not working together, I can guarantee the project will be fucked up for everyone. Unfortunately nobody is teaching "Professional Responsibility and work ethics" anywhere. As long as this continues, we will continue to have to work for fucked up contractors on fucked up projects.
I have only seen a couple well planned out and designed Govt. construction projects the past 5 years. It is rare that I can't find design errors on every single page of a set of bid documents. With all the cut and paste design going on the same errors keep reappearing and the contractor has to fight to get paid to fix it. No effort is made to edit and write spec's to match a projects needs or common construction practices. When design conflicts/errors are brought to light, nobody works together to resolve the issue and when a change is made, no notification is sent out to the various trades.
When everyone on a project is working just to get their paycheck and go away the end result is fucked. If people don't stick around from start to finish on a project they never learn what they have done wrong during rough in. All electricians need to learn as much as they can about the other trades so they know how to rough in shit right the first time. All of the tradesmen need to be able to correctly read every page of a set of prints. Not just the E or M sections. Learning a skilled trade does not end with your journeyman's card. Just like getting a driver's license doesn't make you an Indy Race car Driver.I do agree with that!!!!

OK!!OK!!!OK!! If the Managers aren't the most important one then tell me why they are the ones that get the BIG BONOUS if the job gets completed in the timely matter, and they are the ones that make the final decisions whether right or wrong.I do agree that it takes EVERYONE DOING THEIR PART.I still believe if you have A TEAM OF PROFESSIONAL MANAGERS they will MAKE OR BREAK the job.

[Pops]

kissup

....and I hope you take that in the constructive way it was offered!

[paintermike]

you kno you are right!!! If they tell me to do something wrong and I know it's wrong ,then they are the ones held responsible. Is that what you mean by KISSUP???

[Pops]

Seriously, all are equally important. Sups ain't gonna build it by themselves. And I don't care how skilled you are in your trade, one trade ain't gonna build it by themselves. Ideally you have a bunch of guys (and/or gals) who feel like they are part of a team accomplishing something, not a bunch of individuals who are so insecure they need to be singled out and told they are special.

The most important guy (or gal) is the one buying the next round of beer!!!

Then the importance shifts to the next guy, and so on and so on...:cheers

...and PMike, just poking fun...with the kissup comment. You could make a case for the payrole person being the most important, don't you think? Who is going to stay and build it if the payrole doesn't come through or is always screwed up. And yes, I have heard of cases where it was, but all the trades were affected, not just the electricians.

[paintermike]

u r right it takes everybody, doing their job.

[toddlampiris]

This should stir up some conversation. :cheers


I Don't see FIBER OPTIC OR TELECOM GUYS LISTED.....

WITHOUT US IT'S JUST A LIGHTED, HEATED, FURNISHED STORAGE ROOM
:moon :moon :moon

[FATBOY]

I'm a Electrician and have been for the last 26 years. The hvac,plumbers,and pipe fitters get a set of prints that show them exactly where to install their duct,vent lines, copper, cold and hot water lines ,shit they even get TOD's and BOD's. We on the other hand just get a set of prints with symboles on them and have to figure out how to get from a to c and pick up b on the way, while avoiding all the trash in our way.Thats where management comes in to settle the differences and arguements we get into. Here is a concept if we all got along the job would go smoothly and we would not need the (Chicken Shit) manager and that would mean more profit for the owner and maybe a bonus for the working man. (yeah get real). Brothers we all need each other, try hanging conduit, duct, or copper from the air. But really we are the ones that power the job and keep it going.:cheers

[k2dukes]

Even thou, I checked all the crafts are important, I have to stay with in my own craft. I have been working in the electricial field since "76", (showing my age here), and with out us, nothing gets done.

[Pops]

:blahslap

[Megga Watt]

:lol: Dam your old dude :wtf :banghead

:cheers Cheers dude, Ya I have a few on you and I agree you all can't do much without electric but it all works better if we all worked together as one team. :cheers

[Pops]

Amen Megga, but you will never stop those who are insecure from asking this question. I personally think it is the cleanup crew because some of us "craftsmen" or "tradesmen" sure as hell ain't gonna pick up after each other and before the job is complete it would be 100 feet deep in trash. How's that?

Here is proof we are all needed: If there was a trade that was not important, the companies would not have any of them on the payroll.


Meanwhile, have another beer...Argo, anyone?

[1John]

I think you all have the right idea, :cheers but let's not forget about management. I have seen some really poor management turn a great job into a would be disaster only by getting the tradesmen on the job out of their sequential order. :wtf However I knew a guy that always said "in the midst of chaos their is money to be made" Don M.
But that theory can really work on one's patients:banghead

[jackcease]

THE RULES I LEARNED IN N.C.O. SCHOOL U.S.M.C. ARE; 1.) NEVER TASK YOUR PEOPLE TO DO A JOB THAT YOU CAN'T OR WON'T DO YOURSELF.
2.) YOU CAN DELEGATE AUTHORITY. BUT YOU CAN'T DELEGATE RESPONSIBILITY OR ACCOUNTABILITY FOR A JOB DONE POORLY BECAUSE YOUR PEOPLE WEREN'T WELL INFORMED OF THE MISSION REQUIREMENTS.
3.) ALWAYS ADMIT WHEN WRONG OR MISTAKEN.
4.) THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS AND IF YOU FORGET THIS, HE'LL EAT YOUR ASS!

[mexfishguide]

It is easy to tell which is most important.

Who do you all ways call when the lights go out.???

DAM ELECTRICIANS.

Who should be paid the most money.?

DAM ELECTRICIANS.

Who has the most prima donnas.?

DAM ELECTRICIANS.

Who are the best looking.?

DAM ELECTRICIANS.

:wtf


Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[travelfetishist]

...Props to the electricians. I mean it.

Maybe the rest of us were rolling our eyes, thinking of the last time we verbally or mentally cursed the slow/ missing/ hardheaded/ ignorant/ misguided guys who had made our lives onsite more difficult.

Look; I'm someone who cannot read & answered ALL.

But, here's why I chose ALL: If you honestly cannot build a safe facility as quickly and proficiently as possible because of a [any single] group, that group is the most important OBSTACLE on the project. NO ONE wants to see any group fall down or fall behind.
:nono: :nono: :nono:

We're all factors in the same product, mathematically.

[guitartexan]

This is the most I've ever posted in one week, yet feel it needs to be said.
What I've seen are CRAFSTMEN afraid that they might be doing a little more work than someone else instead of ears down and focused on the job at hand. Bitching and moaning and general negative propaganda do more harm on a project than anything else.
Most important guy on the job?
YOU! You can be the one to decide to be an example of good work ethic, despite what difficulties you and your comrades have to face.
pulling together and for once bringing a project in within time /budget because of your hard work and despite managements stupidity- whatever it takes! I tell you, that is the time we can take the credit away from the office monkeys. I dont deploy just for a paycheck. I am there and work hard so that on the next project, I will be one more step up.
It has worked fairly well so far.
What are your thoughts?

[paintermike]

This is the most I've ever posted in one week, yet feel it needs to be said.
What I've seen are CRAFSTMEN afraid that they might be doing a little more work than someone else instead of ears down and focused on the job at hand. Bitching and moaning and general negative propaganda do more harm on a project than anything else.
Most important guy on the job?
YOU! You can be the one to decide to be an example of good work ethic, despite what difficulties you and your comrades have to face.
pulling together and for once bringing a project in within time /budget because of your hard work and despite managements stupidity- whatever it takes! I tell you, that is the time we can take the credit away from the office monkeys. I dont deploy just for a paycheck. I am there and work hard so that on the next project, I will be one more step up.
It has worked fairly well so far.
What are your thoughts?read the prints!!!

[LAID BACK SPARKY]

Question"

What has to be up and running before a project recieves a letter too proceed? Damn sure an't the batch plant or the form builders, You have too have X # of lumnas per Sq ft so Security can use there little cameras and ETC, ETC, ETC, That my 2 cents worth,This old sparky just had triple bypass 10 days ago . I had my ass kicked good before but never like this!,

this old country boy will survive, just a little slow down , you BROS & Sister keep up the good work! REALLY laid back sparky

[Megga Watt]

Question"

What has to be up and running before a project receives a letter too proceed? Damn sure ain't the batch plant or the form builders, You have too have X # of lumnas per Sq ft so Security can use there little cameras and ETC, ETC, ETC, That my 2 cents worth,This old sparky just had triple bypass 10 days ago . I had my ass kicked good before but never like this!,

this old country boy will survive, just a little slow down , you BROS & Sister keep up the good work! REALLY laid back sparky

Dam it Sparky don't you know those things are hazardous to your health:AR15
Hate to hear about the By-pass but glad to see you came out the other end better for it.:bigbeer
Never had one and don't look forward to it.
Take care of that old ticker hope everything works out real good. I hear you feel tons better after a by-pass, Don't really know. I will drink one, OH Hell I'll drink a whole 6-pack for ya, Get better soon. :rockwoot:

[studman]

which is more important to your body. the brain or the asshole?

[travelfetishist]

which is more important to your body. the brain or the asshole?

...you'd better bring all the above, eh?

Goodbye to everyone who made this past year more tolerable. I am disenrolling here so I use the money on night school while I'm back in the States.:fauches:

[studman]

and i sometimes wonder which one some people wipe clean?

[AK49]

It seams the managers are always yealing at the Sparkies cause they want that Check for a completion dead line. For example, Fire Alarm system. Costumer won't move in if the Fire Alarms are not working.
And after coastal69 sturing the shit i'd say anyone at the end that irons out the little things. That fucking punch list thats when those guy that have multiple craft skills come in. all the hard core type are long gone and on to the next one. I like to see the project operational. And it don't work with out the Sparkies. And alot of brother rats.

[studman]

haw bout rart pak intall spel chec sofwar & meke beter spelin

[HeadRat]

It's already there, when you are posting a reply, right above the smiley faces there is an ABC with a check mark. Click that and it spell checks.

[Tchiz]

:wtf This is just more proof that all the crafts get along great if management gives us the materials and the schedule for what they want done and leave us the hell alone to do our jobs!!!!! :banghead ...but the fact is "Us Sparkies" are the first on the job for temporary power and we turn the lights off when the job is over...I also did my HVAC apprenticeship and years of experience because I hate working when it's too damn hot or cold!!!!!...I love working with other crafts because if not who would I have to F--k with :1hifu

It takes all the brothers but "SPARKIES" are special...

Peace Out!...
DILLIGAF

[TheJester]

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, it's been a while since I've been on here and stirred the pot, one of my services, but I WISH I could vote again, because I would YET AGAIN vote for Electricians and here is why.

Everyone has been wondering what I have been up to, so here you go. Bought a house and have been working on it.

NOTE PICTURES, here is what an ELECTRICIAN can do for you on a job. Mind you I've never had ANY carpentry training, which I don't think any carpenter has. I still think you can hire just as skilled carpenter standing in front of any southern Home Depot, but I DO give credit to any finishers, cause that is some serious shit.

<img src="http://www.ratpackinternational.com/images/ba.jpg">

<img src="http://www.ratpackinternational.com/images/bamb.jpg">

[The Wild Rover]

I'm a sparky as many of you know, and I think what you did looks great, especially the colors.............really bright. I think you just might have opened Pandora's box...I'm sure, and I hope, we see more people posting trying to top your beautiful upgrades. Which one is the Jesters workshop? Whats the garage look like, and where will the bar be bro? Where can a brother Rat crash? :cheers

[mrbreeze38]

Wow look at that octopus!! Need to hire a real tin bender and not one of your drinking buddies! I will have to give credit to the finisher for covering that mess up though. :lol:

[HeadRat]

Wow look at that octopus!! Need to hire a real tin bender and not one of your drinking buddies! I will have to give credit to the finisher for covering that mess up though. :lol:huh?

[mrbreeze38]

3rd picture down on the "before"! Furnace looks like a jumbled mess of pipe!
I guess if your an electrician you probably can't see it. :doh

[TheJester]

I was confused by what you said as well. "...the finisher did this..." and now "...if you're an electrician you can't see it."

Hey, Captain Obvious, I'm an electrician and I rerouted it all, and made it go from the "Before" to the "After". There was no HVAC guy, no Finisher, no Carpenter, just an electrician. That's why we are the most important craft on a job. We are trained and skilled in ALL crafts.

You loose a carpenter on a job, which you generally do weekly, because none of any carpernter crew I ever knew could make it in all 5 or 6 days of the week we were working, and you'll get by.

You loose an electrician on a job, and you are pretty well fucked.

[paintermike]

I was confused by what you said as well. "...the finisher did this..." and now "...if you're an electrician you can't see it."

Hey, Captain Obvious, I'm an electrician and I rerouted it all, and made it go from the "Before" to the "After". There was no HVAC guy, no Finisher, no Carpenter, just an electrician. That's why we are the most important craft on a job. We are trained and skilled in ALL crafts.

You loose a carpenter on a job, which you generally do weekly, because none of any carpernter crew I ever knew could make it in all 5 or 6 days of the week we were working, and you'll get by.

You loose an electrician on a job, and you are pretty well fucked.Sorry, Jester I kno that you done a really nice job there, but the last job I was on WE CARPENTERS had to work 8--12's just to repair all the elec. remodels.

[The Wild Rover]

I never liked working 8-12's...I know the paycheck looks good, but Uncle Sam takes out too much for taxes, so to keep the wife happy, I just work the 7-12's.
This might explain why your 2 x 4's were always cut too short.:lol:

[Megga Watt]

I am of the same mind as WR, Great job but the job isn't finished until we see the picture of the BAR.:cheers Paintermike can't come he is too busy working 8--12's :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[mrbreeze38]

[QUOTE=TheJester]

Hey, Captain Obvious, I'm an electrician and I rerouted it all, and made it go from the "Before" to the "After". There was no HVAC guy, no Finisher, no Carpenter, just an electrician. That's why we are the most important craft on a job. We are trained and skilled in ALL crafts.

Well Mr. Know It All- rerouting pipe from that plenum ain't HVAC my friend! Anyone can run pipe from a plenum like in that picture, just the same as anyone can run flex duct and Romex!! A real man would have extended that ductwork and cut the takeoffs in the top of the duct and then extend metal (not flex) pipe through the joist space to the registers. All you would have had to frame around was the square ductwork and the registers. If you did that, and I don't see it from the "after" picture, please accept my apologies. I do give you credit for the finishing side, looks pretty good in the picture (did you finish it in 8-12 hr days:lol: ) . As for sparkys knowing everything, I know they think they do, but I have seen so many of them that don't have a frickin' clue as to whats going on. I recently worked with one that didn't know how to use his meter to test if a power tool was good or bad, and I had to show him!! Also if you L-O-S-E an electrician on the job, all you have is a cleaner job, because ain't a one of ya knows how to use a broom or dustpan! :popcorn:

[laticla]

all I can say is egoes piss me off...............:sport002:

[mrbreeze38]

all I can say is egoes piss me off...............:sport002:

Relax my friend, its all in fun on this website!! :blahslap

[paganviking]

it never ceases to amaze me to what lengths electricians will go to in order to stoke their frail egos.

[1John]

Electricians never stroke their own ego's they only state the facts. Besides, I really didn't ever like 8 12's either.:cheers
Funny thing is Electricians have been trained, have a license; as well have to know the Electrical trade and much more just to be able to complete the job when companies want to cut costs on small jobs especially.

"Got License"
"It's all about the size of your tubo and angle you are offset"
John

[alky]

With all the banter going back and forth about just what craft is the best, just stop and think how much time it took you to achieve the classification of Journeyman.
An electrician goes to school for at least four years and most places its now five plus. All this schooling is done on the mans time--no pay for going to school--after turning out as a JW the schooling continues--A good wireman must be well read and understand the electricians bible--The National Electric Code--This little gem is updated every few years and woe to the electrician that dosnt keep up with the changes. The schooling never stops as the low voltage ststems are overtaking all we old timers have known. To be a competent and able electrician you have to stay on top of your trade and know that there are only seven days in a week unlike some painters that work 8--12s

[The Wild Rover]

Sadly, we are constantly hearing horror stories out of Iraq about Servicemen and Women getting killed in the showers by electrocution, and stories everday on the web about someone, somewhere, getting electrocuted. In most cases, you can see when a painter or carpenter does not know what he is doing...you can taste and smell when a plumber is not up to par...But electricity is something most people take for granted, as you cannot see it. It is called Electrical Theory...it's atoms moving from negative to positive...or if you follow Faraday, positive to negative. Most people feel (hope) that their electrical system has been installed by an electrician that knows what he has been doing...sadly, lately, this seems to slip though the cracks...To qualify as an electrician, your system has been taught, studied, and argued over through numerous years of study, and you are tested frequently after you finish your accredited schooling, to show you understand that people's lives are at risk simply if you cross one set of wires..(Most common is an improperly grounded conductor, mistakenly used as a grounding conductor)...consider that when a wall is improperly papered, how many children you can kill, because this electricity will kill them. Do you trust your children around your home system...do you trust that the breaker will trip, that the fuse will blow? It does make a difference WHO installs your systems. You must know City, State, and the National Electrical Codes, and it changes daily.
So go away with your ego bullshit...I'm a highly skilled tradesman, with the largest, fastest, continuously growing (daily) industry throughout history...the joining of 2 pieces of wood has changed little throughout history, and painting, well, that's a skill when done right, enhances the walls and room, but only if the electrician has installed the lighting properly....Jesus was a carpenter, but his Father is an Electrician. I'm sure we've all seen many electrical storms, and everyone is awed by lightning, but only a few of us are intelligent to understand it.

[Gabriele]

Geez, how long will this "I am the greatest" go on. No doubt the electrical trade is important, as well as the building trade, gotta make sure the building is structerly sound. But as far as I have seen, it takes all trades to get a job completed the proper way and there is always the inspector to make sure.
:lol:

[The Wild Rover]

No one said they were the greatest, but someone did say we have an ego problem. We all know this is gentle ribbing...Well I'm sorry Gabe, maybe we could sit around and complain about AT&T...I think we all know this is called ball busting, it's part of the trades. Sorry you phone guys are above that. Now that is funny... I'll worry about that when the "Phone Inspector" shuts the job down! Like that will happen...:lol:

[Gabriele]

No problem with the ball busting/ribbing or whatever, with the trade I started in we all knew that Ma Bell was the best.

[paintermike]

No one said they were the greatest, but someone did say we have an ego problem. We all know this is gentle ribbing...Well I'm sorry Gabe, maybe we could sit around and complain about AT&T...I think we all know this is called ball busting, it's part of the trades. Sorry you phone guys are above that. Now that is funny... I'll worry about that when the "Phone Inspector" shuts the job down! Like that will happen...:lol: FELLAS-FELLAS--FELLAS!!! STILL GOES BACK TO THESE UNTOUCHABLE PM'S AND SUPS who would rather have their buddies and such as LEADMEN AND SUPS AS APPOSED TO THE OLE MERIT SYSTEM WHERE YOU HAVE TO HAVE AT LEAST SOME KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR TRADE, and yes ALKY you are wright you sparkies are a different sort !!!

[The Wild Rover]

No problem with the ball busting/ribbing or whatever, with the trade I started in we all knew that Ma Bell was the best.
:cheers

[paganviking]

good spirited conversation... i love it.

for the record: i will concede that yes, electricians are very well trained. yes, you need to know codes

ok i wasn't finished...

no one is doubting the training, skill, or craftsmanship of electricians. we all appreciate the knowledge one must possess to stay on top in that field.

my only point is that electric is by no means the MOST IMPORTANT craft on the job. you may think you are, but you're just another craft. just another part of the team. it takes all of us to bring a project to fruition. we can't do it without each other and without working together.

that said, i'm casting my vote for management.

[Pops]

It is not important what trade or skill you have, only that you DO have a trade or skill that is needed. This is a tired thread guys. As for being shut down because the phone inspector fails it, why, you know Rover all us phone guys are so good we never would be that bad. Also you won't see them open a new embassy WITHOUT phones. And yes, the phones won't work too good without power to the PBX, and the PBX can't sit in air, so you need a floor, and yes, you need plumbing so the phone guys can take a dump, and an elevator to haul our sorry asses up from the first floor and doors on the rooms and ...... well this horse is DEAD, let's quit beating it.

Now, where did I put my beer down? Oh yes, down my throat of course. Time to get another.:cheers

[Low Range]

You sparkys can suck my hemmoroids,,,,,,,,,,,, fuckin whiners,,lets see you self proclaimed hvac dicks,,,that would be the jESTER,take a piece of flat ass sheet metal, then make it round, and then finish it into a square and back again to a round,whatcha ya all think ???
You guys seem to think you are somethin special,,You Aint
This site used to be ok, now its all about electricians.
Do you know about the job in Lithuania? In Jarkata ? In Chernobynol ? Did you hear about what happened in Macedonia? Do you even know about the one in my backyard,,completion 2019 ? maybe beyond ?

Craft importance ????????? What an fing load,,i have enough things that piss me off these days than to listen to this shit, let alone get on here and pay for it!!!! Up youres Rat Pack

Alrighty then :nono:

[Sasquatch]

You sparkys can suck my hemmoroids,,,,,,,,,,,, fuckin whiners,,lets see you self proclaimed hvac dicks,,,that would be the jESTER,take a piece of flat ass sheet metal, then make it round, and then finish it into a square and back again to a round,whatcha ya all think ???
You guys seem to think you are somethin special,,You Aint
This site used to be ok, now its all about electricians.
Do you know about the job in Lithuania? In Jarkata ? In Chernobynol ? Did you hear about what happened in Macedonia? Do you even know about the one in my backyard,,completion 2019 ? maybe beyond ?

Craft importance ????????? What an fing load,,i have enough things that piss me off these days than to listen to this shit, let alone get on here and pay for it!!!! Up youres Rat Pack

Alrighty then :nono:
Whew, too many welding fumes I think

[laticla]

Daaaaammmmmm!!!!!!!:sport002: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers

[mrbreeze38]

I recently heard this at a jobsite: "Rat Pack, its a site for disgruntled electrical workers" :lol: :kib:

[alky]

Man you got it wrong--It aint just disgruntled electricial workers--its the one and only LAPTOP UNION--Its for all trades and all overseas workers

[HeadRat]

I recently heard this at a jobsite: "Rat Pack, its a site for disgruntled electrical workers" :lol: :kib:
I would be interested to know which jobsite that was.

[mrbreeze38]

disgruntled (adj)

discontented, dissatisfied, resentful, displeased, unhappy, irritated, angry, sullen, annoyed, peeved (informal), put out

:doh

[HeadRat]

dissatisfied, displeased, unhappy, irritated, angry, sullen, annoyed, peeved (informal), put outYeah, with the way the workers are treated and some of the situations that come up that are REAL, I'll agree with these in that reguard.

[paintermike]

disgruntled (adj)

discontented, dissatisfied, resentful, displeased, unhappy, irritated, angry, sullen, annoyed, peeved (informal), put out

:doh mrbreeze38-- I think we all have had situations on the work site---and we all have expressed our complains--- and rightly so. I for one had many people on the jobsite there in China that said that I should beat the piss out of some of the things that we're said and done to me as a worker on that project. I know now what procedures to take, back then I was green at these types of jobs, and was trying to keep a DREAM JOB. I THINK ALOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THE TYPE OF WORK AND HOW MUCH I DID WHILE THERE AND WITH SO MANY obsticles in the way. I just wished that the Men that we're behind me ,so they said ,would have stood up when things we're really tough. You know the problems on that job. and if people would ban together and say enough is enough, again I was in a delima and wanted to presurve my Job and my T/S, AND SHOULD HAVE NOT LET THEM PUT ME IN A CATCH /22. THIS SITE IS FULL OF BITCHES LIKE ME, BUT IF WE ALL WOULD BAN TOGETHER AND STAND UP FOR ONE ANOTHER, I THINK THAT WE COULD CHANGE ALOT OF THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON . UNITED WE STAND AND DIVIDED WE FALL.

[Boomer]

TEAM TEAM TEAM TEAM TEAM TEAM TEAM

Get the point?

[Hartranch]

I have seen at least 30 so called "Master Electricians" that couldn't tell you who Mr. Benfield is!!!.
The Wild Rover

Mr. Benfield is a relative to Mr. Rob Roy (LOL). I worked for a contractor many years ago where we had to install some power distribution equipment in a mildly corrosive location. I told him he needed to order some "Rob Roy" for the risers....quizzical look.....some "O-Cal"....still quizzical. "Nevermind...I'll order it". Oh..and then he absolutely refused to buy the "O-Cal" thread dies because they were too expensive. Bitch! Then on top of that, he was bitching and moaning about the price of the O-Cal fittings. Freakin' guy would've done it in PVC if he thought he could get away with it. Said he was already spending too much on the NEMA 4X Panel Boards and gutter. Of course he also argued with me about combining an emergency lighting circuit in the same raceway as the general lighting circuit...told him it was a code violation...he made me show him. Asshole! And then.........I could go on forever. That job sucked.

Spot on post about the engineers...been there done that and it's getting worse. Fucking guys don't even KNOW the term "overlay" anymore.

Even in the nuke plants the workmanship is declining compared to 15 - 20 years ago. Those installations were a work of art. Concentric bends and offsets that would make a framable picture (If you were allowed to take pictures that is).

I just want to get on a sailboat and take off. Feel sorry for the younger guys, they don't know how well planned projects USED to be. I was fortunate enough to be raised up by the old school guys in the union before they all retired. There's just a few of us left anymore.

Whew...thanks for the venting/rant.....just needed to get that off my chest.

[guitartexan]

That is one aspect about this site that you will appreciate more and more. Craftsmen/women on here that understand and have high ethical and installation standards. When we build, we build a product. That product is seen by every country in the world and rats take great pride in having constructed facilities that make jaws drop. Not one rat here condones half ass anyrthing. I have seen guys go way over and above to turn out quality.

And you are right about the pictures. I am working with a guy now, Benito, who can bend rigid and install it like a peice of artwork. I DO wish I could take some pictures and show people just how poorly some installations have been done.

There is no other site like RPI and I for one will be a member for life.

:cheers

GT

[CAPTAIN MORGAN]

IS IT TRUE THAT ALL YOU HAVE TO KNOW IS 4 THINGS TO BE AN ELECTRICIAN??
HOT, NEUTRAL, GROUND AND DONT USE YOUR TEETH TO STRIP WIRE?:rockwoot:

[Sasquatch]

You can't forget ON OFF

[Megga Watt]

IS IT TRUE THAT ALL YOU HAVE TO KNOW IS 4 THINGS TO BE AN ELECTRICIAN??
HOT, NEUTRAL, GROUND AND DONT USE YOUR TEETH TO STRIP WIRE?:rockwoot:

Don't forget when a electrician makes a mistake bad thing's happen.:AR15
When a Plumber makes a mistake you just wind up ankle deep in shit!!:blahslap

[haroldpavelka]

Team is right. Everyone plays a part in the final product. I don't think that one trade is more important than any of the others. We all have to get along since, hopefully, we all have the same goal. Get it done and get home, or on to the next one.

[Coony]

:cheersEveryones got a job to do. You need eletricians to see where the toliet is. You need the plumber to flush the turd. You need carpenters so everyone don't see you take a dump.:moonLOL. Oh yeah mangament is very important. Someone has to pay me.:2cents