Union make a difference? [Archive] - Rat Pack International, the FIRST and ONLY Overseas Workers Forum

tavarich

01-13-06, 03:54 AM

:sport002:
How about this for a response. Every thing I have is thanks to the union I worked out of. The collective bargaining we had was what gave us a leg up on the poor shmuck that just went out and cut their own deal with the contractor. This same shmuck is the same guy that works 30 years and has nothing to show for it. But he is the biggest union hater on the block. On the other hand after being in the union I will get a pension when I decide the time is right to tap into it.
Now after that soap box tirade, I am out here because I discovered a little thing called 330, I can make more money than I did working for the union companies. I also like the travel, and I get to meet some damn interesting people out there in the world. I have a lot more places I want to see and if I can do it on some company’s dime then I’m in.
Bottom line is when the shit gets to deep in the embassy biz I got a place to go.
If we had a collective bargaining chip there would not be any threads about sharing rooms.
:rockwoot:

HeadRat

01-13-06, 06:29 AM

If we had a collective bargaining chip there would not be any threads about sharing rooms.
:rockwoot:We are not as strong as a union, but we charge less, :D , and with this site growing more and more each day you can see the power starting to swing back into the hands of the workers. Take for example, Global, if you look in the Morrison thread where he mentioned that he could relate to not getting his money because another company "stiffed" him, they posted within days for him to get in contact with him.
Then fast forward to Global's post in the Feedback section saying they squared up with him. It may just be bad press, but bad press HERE reaches a LOT OF PEOPLE. The more people are here the more people can pool together and decide if projects get built or not IE: Beijing's money, Jamaica's roommates, Managua's roommates, hell, even Astana started out as roommates, but so many people saw it here and that everyone was saying no to them that they ended up changing to solo apts.
We fight together, we win together. :cheers

CFL

01-13-06, 11:21 AM

like i said im for it just never went in one i went to the military and i wanted to see what people had to say about the unions in tibilsi over half the people there were union and they wanted to make a difference in the taxing of per diem but they knew one or two guys wouldnt hold out and they were out of luck

Bontom

01-13-06, 03:47 PM

im for the concept of it all but if the unions are so great then why are all the union guys overseas? this should get a response :kib:

Head Rat do you have an idea of how may people are working overseas? Also how many jobs are there right now?

TheJester

01-14-06, 12:52 AM

...and they wanted to make a difference in the taxing of per diem but they knew one or two guys wouldnt hold out and they were out of luck...If ANYONE let them tax their per diem and didn't fight it or grad to go home and get an attorney and retire, they fucked themselves. Per diem can NOT be taxed.

pacificdiver

02-20-06, 03:31 AM

Getting ideas???....hey,an international chapter maybe?

mexfishguide

02-20-06, 07:40 AM

Per deim is living allowance for people away from home a year or less at a time.

What the companys are doing is saying this is a long term job, so we will pay a COLA, duh / it is taxable.I want my per deim in cash on site....

State side after you have been on a job away from home for a year or more, IRS can declare you a resident & disalow the away from home expense deduction.

The ideal contract it more then 11 months and less then 12 months. Come home and return to a different address, yes there is a lot of argument on this.
You can find out when the IRS calls you up and questions your per deim.

Take Care
Mexfishguide :cheers

River Rat

02-20-06, 02:50 PM

I wish that Union Wages were enough to live on. My wife had to work to make ends meet. I worked Union from 81 to 94. I always had medical insurance and benefits better than most. I always knew the wage I was gonna get on my pay check.

mexfishguide

02-21-06, 03:46 AM

I do not think there is any argument over the unions

1 - having the best training programs around.
2 - Union pay scale will above non-union pay in all areas.
3 - union benefits will be above non union in all areas.
4 - Union working conditions wil be better then non union in all areas.

Right now union pay scale in many areas is 30.00 an hour +, with a benefit package 15 to 18 per hour.

A lot of the union ( inside wiremen ) can be working in the states now, but they do not wish to work where the work is located.

I will admit not all union jobs pay per deim???? And if you are not a member you do not get equal treatment - same as on this site! you are not a member you do not get the details.

As I have said on this site before a union on this type work will not work, to have a strong union people have to stand together and as we see now, some people will work for peanuts and it drives the pay down for everyone.

Take Care
Mex Fish Guide :cheers

emerse

02-21-06, 08:53 AM

Last time I was working at home (state side) I was on a job site at a Phillips 66 plant. I was talking to one of the Electrical (Die hard Union man for 25yrs) Foreman about overseas work and how he would make a lot better money. His comment to me was that any Union hand who would up root and work overseas on a non union job was a Scab.

Now, I am not agreeing with him but I would like to know, what makes a hand a Scab.

mexfishguide

02-21-06, 09:15 AM

That man was wrong completely.

There is no union overseas so how in the hell can you be a scab, he knows not of what he speaks.

Overseas work is strickly non-union.

If you cross over a picket line when the union workers are off work because of a strike? You are a strike breaker, union breaker, & scab.

A lot of workers I know, decide not to belong to a union for 1 reason or another, I do not agree, but I do not condem them either.

I was raised in the days when a scab was very likely to get badly beaten up, shot, or both!!!! Most workers today do not go back far enough to remember the days when a union was a force to be recconed with, without those strong union workers we would all be down about minimum wage and no benefits.

Yes I remember the guys stationed on the hills around a stike site with rifles to shoot cars, trucks, bus's, & people crossing the picket lines.

Union meetings on a strike vote were often times held not at the union hall but in a place where the armed guards could keep a sharp outlook for company spy's.

I do not hang a union sign on my back and go around with a chip on my shoulder, but unions were the best thing to ever come along for the working man. :fauches:

Take Care
Mexfishguide :cheers

Bontom

02-21-06, 02:00 PM

My union hall Local Union 212 Cincinnati, has no problem what so ever with the leaflets I left there for Rat Pack International. The business agent said if he didn't have little kids, he'd want to try it.

Pops

02-22-06, 03:00 AM

that foreman may be a die hard union man, but he does not understand one basic thing, unions are FOR the workers, not workers FOR the unions. lots of union guys forget that, usually presidents and officers. you can't scab unless you are crossing picket lines. (or going around through a back door)
CFL give me your bank account info and passwords and I will take care of your taxes. :cheers

CFL

02-22-06, 04:42 AM

hey no way man just started pulling the basement today :wtf

Gabriele

04-10-06, 08:06 AM

When I worked for a or should I say the major telecom company in the USA, I had an issue that came up where I "needed" my unions help. I was told that they would not take it beyond the local level as it would be costly to do so. I haven't worked union since then, 1997. My pay and benefits rival with any union jobs.

As for per diem, I worked several jobs that paid per diem, the rule as I was told is that I could only draw per diem for up to one year and then the money was roled into my wage, but that I could be relocated 50 miles to another site and continue to draw the per diem. Also, lay off for one month and start over on per diem.

sph977

11-07-06, 07:19 AM

i worked union for 8 years before going overseas . the reason i left the state side work was cause i saw know diffrence in being 800 miles from home or 8000 miles from home you are not going back until the job is done so i mine as well get the most money i can . :2cents

The Wild Rover

03-22-07, 07:28 AM

Moved from another thread, as subject belongs here...

Is this going to grow into one of those Nigerian / Canadian lottery scam letters??? :wtf

I think what some of you mean by skilled is 20 Years in a union with the "Don't kill the job" mentality thinking you are better and make more than those of us with 20 years of experience who choose to keep our money in our pockets instead of union fat cats spending it on lavish parties, cars and political parties some of us don't care to support. :kib:

Well Todd,
Not all of us Union Brothers need to justify our reasoning with a response to all of the statements made. Most intelligent people see the good and bad in all systems, and have the wisdom to know the difference without making biased remarks. I don't need to blast you. I'm a highly trained, educated, respected tradesman with the experience to do the job, with an accredited background and education system from a highly respected organization representing my interests in the collective bargaining arena. You all have a right to all your opinions. I just don't feel I need to waste my time trying to convince or educate everyone...you can be what you want to be. More power to you...just let me be who I want to be, without being treated like my organization has done nothing but spend my money foolishly. My union has many members, and I think the brotherhood would have a lot to say to the improper use of funds, as you so acuse, but, again, you are entitled to your opinion, even if I don't agree with it.:cheers
__________________

mrbreeze38

03-22-07, 04:11 PM

Since the majority of unions have lost alot of power over the years, it seems like they don't want to go to bat for you anymore. I dropped out because they: 1) couldn't promise me steady work 2) refused to give us raises for fear the companies would lose their bidding leverage. 3) protected far too many lazy, worthless guys who had been there longer than me. If one guy can work harder than another, then I'm sorry but the lazy guy has to go! I don't care how long he has been there! I also didn't want to keep paying dues if they are not going to bat for me anymore. I agree that their training is the best and they do some quality work, but it's time for them to either reshuffle the deck or change with the times. :2cents

TheJester

03-22-07, 11:23 PM

Let me add MY :2cents (2 cents)
I've never worked a Union job or been Union for that matter, but I have been trained by both when I was coming up. I think the Union has the best training of anything.
HOWEVER, on the other side of the coin, I think the work ethic is a bit lacking. Hiring a Union shot, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, is the best and worst thing for a job.
BEST: It'll be insanely accurate, look good, and work like a charm
WORST: They'll nickle and dime your ass into the ground making the job cost about DOUBLE of what it should have.

Now, before this goes back into another lap of "if it were not for the unions we wouldn't have, blah blah blah" let me point out. For all it's strength, even at it's strongest, we still don't have one overseas, so what they have or can do is a mute point. I've VERY thankful for all they have accomplished on the states side of it, however, that does nothing for me.

Good, Bad, whatever, don't care, but WE are the only ones in control of this overseas "operation". WE have to take the power back.

Megga Watt

03-23-07, 07:18 AM

BEST: It'll be insanely accurate, look good, and work like a charm
WORST: They'll nickle and dime your ass into the ground making the job cost about DOUBLE of what it should have.

Good, Bad, whatever, don't care, but WE are the only ones in control of this overseas "operation". WE have to take the power back.

:cheers You hit the nail on the head Jester.:cheers I was brought up in Dallas TX and was never exposed To union, or union hands until I went overseas, and you are 1000% right about the great work they are capable of, but they will nickle and dime you into the poor house, and complain about everything. I wish I had some of the training they had but I've done alright for my self, I am a old hand that had to learn the hard way but I did it. We are all overseas now and working together, so forgetting what local or shop we were trained at and start learning from each other, the better off we will be. Let's hang together and make the companies pay us what we are worth instead of hiring a bunch of Turks to do shit work over and over again. :rockwoot:

Pops

03-24-07, 05:52 AM

Mr Breeze, I am with you on the lazy guy thing. The union should be there to make sure it is for cause that he gets let go, not to keep him if he can't do the job. Union - Religion - Politics....3 HOT topics man, and you can argue good points either way on any of them till you are blue in the face and not change the mind of most people I have met in adult life. They seem to be ingrained before adulthood (30 or so) and seldom change. So, let's have a beer and discuss the belly dancer at the Kama Sutra, instead. Kamenitza's all around!:cheers :cheers :cheers :cheers :cheers

Junior

03-24-07, 06:28 AM

Union - Religion - Politics....3 HOT topics man

And peoples mothers..

mrbreeze38

03-24-07, 07:32 AM

I hear ya Pop! :cheers :cheers :cheers :cheers

Pops

03-24-07, 09:09 AM

You're right, Junior, I missed one...

FATBOY

03-26-07, 04:24 AM

Non union - union I have seen good mechanics on both sides of the fence, and I have seen saytheyares. The ones that can plug something in and think they are electricians. The contractors seem to want to hire saytheyares because they work cheaper, and will work at any trade. The draw back is having to go back and fix what they fuck up. Now thats what will nickle and dime a job. Having to fix something that should have been put in right the first time. Sooner or later these college grads will see that if you pay some one for what they know to do in the long run it will be cheaper then paying twice for the same deal. Also nothing is free it will cost someone something somehow. If you want good training you have to pay for it, good benefits you have to pay for it, info from ratpack you have to pay for it because in order for it to be posted someone has to pay for it. This site is a good thing we need to work with it and not try to start some I'm better then you because it shows our ignorance and childishness to the contractors that belong to this site. We want them to know us as professionals at our trade and not be afraid to contact ratpack for some tradesmen.:2cents :cheers

Junior

03-26-07, 10:38 AM

Sooner or later these college grads will see that if you pay some one for what they know to do in the long run it will be cheaper then paying twice for the same deal.

Yeah, it's gone unnoticed for like, the last 4 decades, but I'm sure there's a bunch of undergrads sitting in their dorms right now talking about how to better things by explaining to a companies shareholders that by cutting into their profits a few points, they can get some "highly skilled" workers on the job.

Sadly, I think the fact is, most of the "college grads" you speak of honestly believe the only thing necessary to accomplish our jobs is a warm body. Better yet, a strong back and a weak mind, as the saying goes. After all, we're just a bunch of blue collar workers, right?

drifter

06-02-07, 12:10 AM

What is this ASSHOLE doing on here???:wtf :banhim

Hey Drifter. I got the spam referring to drugs deleted. Thanks

paintermike

06-02-07, 02:49 AM

Hey HR;
I thought it would be intresting to see out of all the members, to have a count to see how many of us have a TS/ or a S clearance. I'm still pretty new to this game and was just wondering.
THANKS

henmandan

06-08-07, 04:09 PM

Tryed to get a job with the union when I was living in Vegas, They said no --- go figure. They did not want a master elect i g:wtf uess

mexfishguide

06-09-07, 04:34 AM

There are a lot of things to consider on this subject.
1- Where you live in the world.
2 - The area you live in have any work going on.
3 - Is the work union or non union.
4 - If you are a union hand can you work at home are must you travel,
away from home your working life.
5 - If you are on the road all the time, can you move to a union area.
Are you willing to relocate your family.
6 - if you are willing to work non-union, is there work in your area.

etc. etc. Same questions for both.

A lot of union jobs pay more per hr. then non-union, but no per deim while the non-union work pays per deim, most big non union projects work a lot of overtime, and the union jobs do not.

What do you need to live on - can you make it on us$1750.00 a week + 490.00 a week per deim, and work full time year around state side, if so there is plenty of work.

Overseas you would make us1500.00 for the same hrs worked and not as much per deim.

I believe in unions and belonged for years, but I also realize a man has to feed his family.

We old timers on this site have yelled for ever - Do not sign for overseas work for less then 30 and hr., private living quarters, per deim, and do not leave the states without a return airline ticket. :wtf

You must read the contract.:blahslap

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

Sasquatch

11-08-07, 05:15 AM

are we advertising for viagara here or what?

Tchiz

11-11-07, 05:01 PM

I think the unions are great...that's where we learn our brotherhood...I spent my time there and never regret one day...the only thing I regret was the unions are not that strong in the south where I live!...

It's great to make the best money but not if I only work 6 months a year...I make the same money and feed my family and know my business on other jobs...Overseas contracts guarantee my salaries and per diems...Yes, I think there would be nothing better than for all of us with overseas experience and TS Clearance to get together and negotiate and make a deal with OBO and the contractors for our services...I think Ratpack together as a team can do this...

Head Rat, Jester and all the council members, that would make you BA's and Job Stewards but unlike the union everyone would have a voice!!!

That would be too great a deal, but lets work on it...I'm all for it...We as a team have got to pull together and let people know we can do the work!...

The government has retirement, pensions, insurance and benefits, etc, etc, etc...(like the union) they should treat us that way...we do the work...

All I want is a fair shake and a fair deal...like I've heard here..."I would rather have an honest man's word than a liars contract"...

Thanks for listening to me bitch...

DILLIGAF

AK49

12-01-07, 08:40 AM

I feel your pain. The dollars is still getting hit and de-valueing daily and the wags are not going up. Who if not organized labor sets the bar when it comes to wages. And why can't we decide what currency were paid in.
Hey Mex, how stong will the Peso get compared to the dollar before you work for Pesos?

jcarp

03-12-08, 07:43 AM

I haved worked both sides and I think its a coin toss. Union jobs I think have more quilified people on them. But on the other hand I like working non union because we get per dim there for I make more money. Plus I only work overseas and there is no union here. My vote non union

mexfishguide

03-12-08, 11:50 AM

AK49
Point well taken bro.:rockwoot:

Tchism
I think maybe my effort to set some wages and conditions on site, with all the bro. Was before a lot of you came on board...???!!!:banghead

We had a consenous on site that 30 would be our minimum, each man a bedroom & bath, x dollars for MEI, every one was on site saying yea man we are all for it, yeah, yeah, lets do it.:blahslap

Then "bang" here comes the China job, what do guys do they go for 23 and dip shit conditions. I have more then once wrote up a sample contract for a pattern, same crap, thats good, but no one shows a set and stands up for them self.

Farther then that I have stood up on the job for workers rights and yes even drug up on some ( money makers )to prove a point. Does no friggin good.

Get in here and tell us what you think we need to do to put up a front that is stable, and all on board will back it, not with their month and keyboard, but with actions. It takes a set of cajones like gallon buckets to be up front.

Take Care
Mexfishguide
camp - fish - drink beer

work ??? I don't think so. :AR15

paintermike

03-12-08, 01:59 PM

pensacola_niceman

03-13-08, 12:58 AM

I'm an engineer and engineers don't generally have unions. I've been with companies that had union workers and companies that did not. I prefer to work where there is no union. Unions often make it difficult for a salaried employee and seem paranoid that everybody is out to take their job away from them. Some union guys like to file grievences everytime something doesn't go their way. Some go totally apeshit when they see an engineer with a screwdriver in his hand. I'm not saying all unions are like that, but I have seen some that were throughout my career.

mexfishguide

03-13-08, 03:10 AM

pensacola_niceman

03-13-08, 04:21 AM

I served a union apprenticeship many years ago, after and during that, I was going to school at night, got an aaee then went on to get a bsee. Hard struggle to work all day and go to school at night.

I respect union workers and their attempt to improve both the trade,wages & conditions. Non-union firms have changed some in the last few years, they had too in order to keep the union out.

With out the unions you would see construction pay around 10 to 12 us. In
fact it so now in strong non-union areas.

In the days of the coal miners struggle to go and stay union, it was a serious matter to the point of getting killed, union meeting were held out in the country in places that were easy to post armed guards and keep outsiders away.

unions are the best thing that ever happened to the us worker.

Take Care
Mexfishguide
camp - fish - drink beer - :cheers

I hear you Mexfish. I know that unions certainly helped a lot of good hard working people - especially in the early days when unions first came about. I'm an application engineer that works on the ass end of things getting installed and working. I work with a lot of trades people, and, believe me, have learned a lot from them.

That being said, when I worked for Florida Power & Light at the beginning of my career, all the workers belonged to IBEW. If they saw any of us engineers with so much as a soldering iron in our hands, they would file a fucking grievance. If we were to wait for a union guy to solder the wire, we would have to wait 2 days to get one scheduled. Not a real efficient arrangement.

I've also seen companies where the union goes on strike. Six months later the company is out of business. A lot of good that strike did.

I'm not anti-union per se, but have seen some problems throughout my career in situtations where the union was strong.

By the way, out here in Iraq, nobody gives a shit about unions - just getting the job done.

Gabriele

03-19-08, 10:50 AM

I came up through the Bell System/AT&T/Lucent, one thing I can say is that many workers were rotected because of the union and the management not doing their job to document their lack of ability or abilility to learn.

I have seen many times were employees demanded schooling ad jobs due to senority. Most of us were covered under the CWA, while some were IBEW and a few odd and end ones.

So while I didn't see a big ned for the union, I understand the role they played to bring about better conditions and benefits, they also created a place where slackers could still work while others were laid off.

I understand too, that most of the tradesmen on this site and other union workers are hired and trained through their union, but not the CWA, I was hired and trained by the Bell System.

roadhard

02-22-09, 10:47 AM

Unions served their purpose many years ago when workers were over worked and underpaid but today as I see the american automotive manufactures being brought to their knees and on their way of becoming bankrupt with much to blame by the union.

Electrical Al

02-22-09, 12:04 PM

Looks like a new era for all of us. The demo led congress and president are soon to vote on bill that will allow open ballot and that will allow following.
!. be able to vote for union and union officials will know who voted for or against.
2. What will that cause? Seems like maybe a lot of problems.
3. I have never worked union but that's just the way I work.
I personally have always have had work because I keep a plan for this.

Now we have to pay for auto workers to keep a job that makes up to 75 a hr to keep there jobs and pay for home owners who are losing their homes.

Like to hear what you fellow rats think. I personelly do not like unions.

:2cents

CAPTAIN MORGAN

07-17-10, 03:59 PM

A UNION IS FOR THE WORKERS. THE UNION STANDS UP AND RERESENT ITS MEMBERS TO NEGOTIATE THE BEST POSSIBLE WAGES. THE BEST POSSIBLE BENEFITS. THE BEST POSSIBLE WORKING CONDITIONS.
IN RETURN, THE UNION SUPPLIES THAT COMPANY WITH THE BEST POSSIBLE QUALIFIED AND EXPERIENCED CRAFTSMEN.
HAVING SOMEONE STEP UP TO BAT FOR YOU SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT THING. HOWEVER, IM SURE THERE IS JUST AS MANY THORNS AS THERE ARE ROSES.
PERSONALY I HAVE NEVER BELONGED TO A UNION. I HAVE FOUGHT TOOTH AND NAIL ON MY OWN TO GET WHERE I AM TODAY. NO ONE HELD MY HAND OR WIPED MY ASS FOR ME. NOT KNOCKING THE UNION OR ANYTHING. I JUST HAVE A GREAT SENSE OF PRIDE IN BEING A SELF MADE MAN. YES,EVEN WHEN I WAS UNEMPLOYED. BEING OUT OF WORK WAS IN MY CONTROL. NOT BECAUSE OF A UNION STRIKE.
WHEN GROWING UP MY FATHER WORKED FOR AT&T. UNION. AWSOME PAY AND BENEFITS. BUT WHEN IT SEEMED LIKE THE UNION WAS A BIT GREEDY. WHEN THEY WENT ON STRIKE, WE NEERLY LOST OUR HOME. WE HAD A HARD TIME PAYING FOR FOOD AND UTILITIES.
I DONT WANT TO EXPERIENCE THE SAME KIND OF PAIN THAT MY FATHER MUST HAVE FELT WHEN HE COULDNT FEED HIS FAMILY BECAUSE HIS $80,000 A YEAR JOB WAS ON STRIKE.