Prequalified Craftspeople?

[mexfishguide]

HR, Do we have any figures to compare Turkish bids to American bids? By the man hour are by the job?

I have worked Turks in Turkey and in other countrys, they are not american quality craftsmen. That said, I have to agree a lot of americans on these jobs are sure as hell not quality craftsmen.

Why do I keep going on about being sure the people we send overseas are true journeymen, if you have 2 bodys one no better then the other, hell, use the low cost body.

We have hashed around here a lot about requiring a journeyman license in your trade, hell fire, that is required most places in the states, and should be.

IFFFFF I do another overseas gig, I will require proof of status, you will have a journeymans license --
or proof of completion of a recognized apprentice program _______
Proof of overseas embassy experience ------

We are loosing ground every day to the folks at low ball construction, what the hell, they have tried to use so many folks that were not competent journeymen, they are just tired of trying. :banghead

You fellows with license and have served an apprenticeships, be sure and make it clear on your apps. I want to see more people on site here and on the job, that are proud to be genuine craftsmen, I do not back up, can you do this yes and that and that.:wtf

Do young people deserve a chance hell yes this is america, my oldest grandson is seving a millwright apprenticeship, yes I can and could have took him on site as what ever, but that will not help him in the long run, he needs to "know" a trade, to survive in the construction business.:blahslap OK.

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[roadhard]

If they were to ever demand licensed Journeymen electricians, Carpenters, Welders, Plumbers, etc, That would cut around 70 to 80% of the people out here working on these overseas projects, Including many rat members amongst us!
I have worked with some guys out here who were excellent old tradesmen and never attended any schooling or training but they are very far and few between....Most licensed tradespeople dont/wont work overseas because they dont want to be away from family,Friends or for whatever reason to take a 25 to 30hr offer from one of these stingy screwed up companies when they can make that back in the states..

The only reason that im out here is because I have a good thing going with who im with, But if things change, Im out of the game.....

[wkdivr]

I wholeheartedly agree with everything all you guys have said on this topic. Unfortunately.....as we all have seen, mostly with the TS, or higher jobs, the clearance seems to be more important than actual experience in the trade. I've heard countless times,"oh, we're looking to get a "core group" of experienced, cleared craft people together to knock out our most important projects"......then they never try to keep in touch with you till they need something from you. When you call to keep in touch after a job, they sound like "who were you again?":banghead :banghead



:2cents :2cents

[Megga Watt]

:banghead OK all here is something to think about.
I have been running jobs as long as I can remember and I can tell you for a fact, trying to get enough qualified personnel on a overseas job at the same time and in the same place, (never mind all cleared personnel) is dam near impossible. I have hundreds of names I pull from to staff a job and most of the time I can get 5 to 10 at a time on a job no problem. But here lately there are fewer and fewer every year to call from. Either they have settled in on a job they like, or are making better money on a job they already have. Everyone has to feed someone so we all have to work doing something we are good at and that we like. And on the rare occasion there is enough qualified personnel available, then we have these great jobs everyone hears about from time to time where everything goes great.:rockwoot:
It is on the rare occasion that everything falls together just right, if it dose then in a perfect world we would all be happy and fat and not complaining about unqualified personnel (we would be teaching them).
Yes most companies take it way too far, but alot of companies have tried to do the right thing by hiring qualified personnel with clearances at the right price and with a good package and someone always screws it up for everyone else. How many of you have experienced that!!!!:kib: There are many of you out there that know me and what I have tried to do on many a job and how it is a up hill battle every day just to get things working properly and keep everyone happy and the job running properly. This includes the premadonnas that think they always know better than anyone but will not run a job just complain about everything and everyone all the time.
There is no real solution to all this, it is all a game to see who has the most qualified personnel together at the same time (resume stockpiling) to get the job done. Have a real Job call over here and see how many people are ready at the drop of a hat. One maybe two that is all you will get, the rest will all have excuses why they can't, and for good reason most of the time. So they fill the empty slots with the best personnel they have to choose from with people that are unqualified or they will loose the job for nonperformance. Now just remember that these companies have to put out a lot of money and time to fill these slots with whatever they can get most of the time, hoping to get a job completed in a timely manner without having to wait for the qualified personnel to decide if this is the right job for them at the right price and if all the benefits are good enough, then the timming ETC> ETC> ETC>
I have heard it way too many times. :wtf
I think I will just stay here and play with my Thai girlfriend. :cheers
Yes I love working on one of those rare jobs where everyone and everything comes together and everything goes just right but in reality they are few and far between.:2cents

[guitartexan]

You have summarized most of the problems. All we can do is make sure we let the companies know that we have journeyman status and have certifications, degrees, or formal schooling.

I have heard " oh you dont need a liscense on these projects" and that makes me sick.:2cents

[mexfishguide]

"mega watt", You have some very good points, having been in the situation you talk about many times.

Some time back I posted a question, should we have American helpers overseas? Why? Is it right to pay an (all most wanta be) the same as a true craftsman? I have not worked with my tools for some years now, but if I was and were in a crew of not even close to journeymen and all were drawing the same pay! I served a union wireman apprenticeship, went to college and have 2 degrees, un-limited license in several areas. You think I would work beside some of the ass holes I see come on site, no way.

If these guys want to work overseas then set up a senior helper scale are some thing along those lines. They are ruining our trades on the overseas market, shoddy workmanship gets blamed on all the Americans. :AR15

I have went through the same thing trying to get help from my list of good solid qualified workers, you call them and - well I am tied up now my cow is about to calf, my wifes younger brother is having a tooth pulled, I been helping bubba for 1/2 scale to build his new house, of course some have a good reason, hell I am making more at home now then I can overseas, :wtf

I know there is a major problem in our country today no one wants to start at the bottom and work up. As i said earlier I have a grandson serving a union millwright apprenticeship. I could take him overseas and let him hang around with the electricians are Plumbers, what ever, but in the longrun to be in this business you better be a true craftsman.

Here again I know where you are coming from, but we must keep trying to improve what we have to offer the contractors. Some of our contractors,
do not even try to hire good expats, just throw local workers at the job and hope some one knows what to do. I would like to have American General Foremen, Foremen, on my jobs with american journeymen for ever 3 are so locals. If I can not get that at least my GF, & F, should be expats.

It is a critical situation, and is very important to those of us on site that wish to keep what work we now have and get more for our site bros.

One last thing, the folks on the big job in China at 22 or 23 per hr, are they to expect 30 on there next project? How about 24 or 25 if they can not prove being a journeyman, if they have proof then 30.

Some good points have beenbrougyht out.

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[Megga Watt]

I agree with you 100% Mexfish, but from past experience this sort of thing has to run it's course. I know you have seen this very thing before with companies. This is the very first time I have seen it started by the US government trying to cut corners by working foreign nationals on classified projects. Never heard of before :wtf Thank you General Williams :kib:
I have heard comments coming from the SD that I never thought I would ever hear in my lifetime.
Yes I believe we should have American helpers overseas, We used to a long time ago especially on classified projects.
But times have changed for the worse becouse of MORONS working for nothing just to get there foot in the Door. Hell most of us have done this or most of us would have never worked at Kwajaline or meck or Johnson Island or Ascension Island.
Embassy work was suppose to be different, we were all professionals until General Williams decided different. He doesn't want these expensive Americans on his embassy's. His words exactly, I was there when he said it. He will get his in the long run and unless we have a multi million dollar lobbyist on our side we are pissing into a fan. He is the fair haired boy right now, but it is catching up to him very fast now with all the ambassadors cussing every move he makes. If we are writing letters we should be sending them to every ambassador in the world, they have more to loose than anyone with there security and quality of life going down hill every day. Baghdad for example is one case in fact! There has been hundreds of foreign nationals working that job most of them hate us, and not one of them were even touched, searched, no bags were inspected and no dogs looking for explosives. Who knows what is in those walls??? There excuse was it would hold up the job trying to search every foreign national working on the job.
We have gone from one extreme to the exact opposite, sooner or later I hope and pray things will equal out.
:AR15 FIRE GENERAL WILLIAMS and get someone responsible in there instead of some fanatic. :2cents

[mrbreeze38]

Totally agree. When the security and intelligence of this great country is compromised due to stupidity, something is seriously wrong with the system. And what will it hurt to pay more for Americans? We bring that money back home and spend it in our communities and keep our local economy growing!

[mexfishguide]

I am sure a lot of you remember several years ago, a small country town
called "MOSCOW" I got a call we need you right away the walls are full of bugs, along with the floors and ceillings, I was a little younger and my answer was, "you fucked it up you fix it". We have not even begin to know how big a mess we have in Bagdad.:nono:

On one recent project, I was told by OBO and the local guard service we do not check bags in and out, are trucks, -- but we are being stolen to death parts as big as welding machines are leaving the site!! Sorry we can not help you. What kind of an assine answer is that.:banghead

Seems like it takes a whole generation for bad things to pass. For you that do not know me, I am just trying by some of my wild off the wall comments,
to get our site people to improve their lot in life,

Take care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[traveler]

Nah, yous guys have it wrong. The gummint has 4 or 5 companies like DECA, Coastal etc etc that have the CAGS/CSTS, cameras, fences so on and so forth, employee forms to check backgrounds, checking vehicles in (and sometimes out) of the projects, but, have you ever noticed that in your storage areas are 5 or more 40 foot containers floor to ceiling-front to back full of buckets of paint, primers, adhesives and joint compound.

Why is it that with all the above, when the tile and stone setters get ready to set tiles/stones-how come no one can find a damned bucket for them to use and NO ONE saw anyone take the buckets from the site???

Must be all them Harry Potter invisibility cloaks.

[bambinosd]

Traveler,
The CAG/CST has nothing to do with your company or other companies not knowing how to handle and maintain their gear, tools and supplies. If you have a 40 foot container, why don’t you have a lock on it??? Why would you invest lots of money for supplies and not keep track of it. If your supplies are walking off site how is it that you don’t have any clue of this until all or half of it is missing…..
As for the CAG/CST and local guards: learn their responsibilities before making comments about them. Security on post has no extra job title called supplies-tools babysitting.
Not to be jerk about this. I work both CAG and Construction jobs. I just hate to see someone taking it out on the CAG/CST. Don’t get me wrong there are some nut jobs out there doing this line of work, but like everyone they are trying to get paid to take care of their families. Also 85% of us are former Military, and I can’t stand when I am at post and have to listen to people say, “I can’t just sit there or walk around all day” Everyone on these jobs is trying to make money to take care of their families, pay bills and make a better future.

:USA:

[traveler]

Bambinosd.

You may want to read ALL the threads and think of my thread in the context in which it was written. If I wanted to slam a particular person, company or entity, I damn sure wouldn't do it on an open forum.

I and I'm almost sure that all companies that have materials etc on construction sites have invested heavily in locks, chains, fences, lights and guard forces (Local and USG) etc etc but the undeniable and indisputeable facts remain that shit disappears from the site or storage areas by some means or methods.

[TheJester]

I can think of one where the freaking Embassy SEAL that goes on the front, you know those big as cast Aluminum things, with the eagle on them, yeah, gone, no idea where it is and the locals were holding the "I" in American US Embassy hostage till they got raises?
Wonder how that happened?

[bambinosd]

First off, Traveler: I didn't mean anything bad. Just didn't like what I read. Maybe I took it the wrong way. No hard feelings?
On most job embassy job sites there are only 2 ways on and off site.(usually)
Most times things walk off site, because the constructions companies have no idea of what is going on. The craftsmen have an idea, but the office guys that order and receive materials have none at all.
The last job I was on, had two ways in and out and the company took time to make sure the guards knew that nothing was to enter or leave the site by a local without the ok from on of the Supervisors.
Just like that, problem solved. Nothing came up missing, expect tools, which came up missing in american only section. Hmmmmmm

[roadhard]

Talking about theivery? Anyone here ever work on the N.O.B in Armenia?
Locals were stealing batteries out of the heavy equipment, Stole the Ambassadors hardwood flooring from the "Secure Wharehouse"
They even took the nobs and hinges from the doors!
:lol:

[Pops]

YEs, I was in Armenia and the locals would steal ANYTHING. ANY little part, screw, piece of wire, anthying. As you old hands know, after the telecom wire is terminated you typically end up with a bundle of 4 colors of wire and maybe a piece of fiber as scrap. Walking through the local Yerevan fleamarket one weekend I saw one of these bundles, about four feet long, hanging from a vendor's tent, FOR SALE. He had no idea what it was, but it was for sale.

And I ain't talking about what a couple of them were found doing in the Porta Pottie. Evidently they were CLOSE friends.


Now call off the Post up Police, I posted!

[mrbreeze38]

If you left the dumpster OUTSIDE the embassy walls overnight in any third world country, I can guarantee you it will be empty by morning!

[TheJester]

Trying to think, where was I that our engineer was out and about and FOUND ALL OUR SECURE PAINTED HILTI NAILS AT A MARKET FOR SALE. Had the matching paint and EVERYTHING!!! and their aint a HILTI dealer in that HEMISPHERE.