AUTHORITY ON SLAVE WORKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mexfishguide]

Jester and others.

I Think the ideal place to find out how overseas workers are treated and paid,
is to Search for ------corpwatch----------, read a few of the story's. Including some from people who went to Kuwaiti on a decent contract and fair pay<<< but were forced into Iraq on starvation wages and deplorable, un safe, living conditions.

Including comments from our own government. :blahslap

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[Gabriele]

I took a look at the site and found it to be interesting. While I feel that the local economy is to be directed by the local government, I do find it deplorable that companies are bringing in foreigen workers to other countries to build our embassies.

Any one catch this interesting piece of information. The new building going up where the World Trade Center was was supposed to have built with steel made in the USA, in fact there was quite a bit of hoopla over that, seems that the steel beam going in with the US flag, etc was made/forged in Luxemberg. My family came from steel country on the Ohio River and I'm sure are extremely disappointed in this.

[ksteelo]

There was a big story on that beam because it is signed by 9/11 victims' family members. I think Pitaki & WTC owner Silverburg or whatever his name is ,had alot more to do with 9/11 than we're being told. Greedy , Shady , Unfathomable business tactics at the cost of unsuspecting human lives is good business to shrewd corporations.:wtf

[HeadRat]

Disturbing

[Pops]

Something about this makes me sick to my stomach, way down deep in my stomach. Sometimes I wonder what sense of patriotism some of my fellow Americans can have. I guess you either have it way down deep, or you don't really know what it means. And to go for the "least cost", etc. on the rebuild, well that I guess means there is a dollar amount on patriotism. The same justification, in the end, they use for not using 100% CLUS on the Embassy jobs. Of course you want cleared, competant Americans, not just anyone off the street, but I would prefer they use some wino off a New York alley (apologize in advance for any hurt Yankee feelings), than ANY foreign nationals. And there is my :2cents

[Gabriele]

[B]Hey Pops, I agree 100%+ with you on this. What a fine time to be able to train new guys also to do work in the non-cleared areas. I understand that OBO and the construction company can negotiate what a non-cleared person can do as well as what the locals can do.

In Cambodia they used both locals and Philipinos on the non secured areas.

[traveler]

While I agree totally with what has been posted about this subject, the days of a construction company (that does o/seas work) self-performing on a new embassy compound with all trades involved (some projects deemed hi-threat by Dip. Security excluded) are over and have been for quite a few years.

Part of the contract documentation includes an "animal" called a Construction Security Plan (CSP) which spells out IN WRITING who can do what in the "secure spaces" which allows any non-cleared workers to do the "rough-in work" but limits the "finish work" to cleared individuals only. This was true yesterday, is true today and will be true tomorrow unless Dip. Security changes their policy on this but I can't see this happening in the foreseeable future.

This being said, companies that have investor backing or want to be in business, grow and show a profit,allows that company to hire a sub-contractor(s) (there in the country) to do the "grunt work" but with U.S. supervision. The "bottom-line" we all hear about dictates that it's a hell of a lot cheaper to hire a worker in place than it is to send us from the states to do the grunt work. How many construction company(s) post classified ads for the trades and state-No experience necessary-will train?? I don't know of any-do you??

Lets be practical here guys, yes we all want the best "package" for our labor, top wages, descent accomodations, A.D.D. insurance, med evac, R&R's, biz class travel to/from the shit-hole country, bonus payments and some of the other "bennies" we hear about, but, where is our employer getting the money to pay for all this?? There is only so much money allocated by FISCAL YEAR in the OBO Construction POT to build, renovate or rehab ALL the buildings under their control. Yes, this money gets moved around-so to speak, depending on the need. A good recent example here is-Sarajevo NEC project and the Moscow renovation project were cancelled and their combined monies allocated for the NEC Project for Karachi Pakistan cus a "Diplomat" was killed there.

These projects have a dollar amount attached to them and a time limit as we all know. Should the "dream happen" and our employer hire us with all the conditions we want (as described above) AND decide to pay the locals "over the existing pay scale" for that country as well as show a profit to stay in business, wouldn't it be logical to presume that the costs of the projects rise astronomically, the State Dept. cut back on the number of projects allocated, the project last forever (why-who wants to kill the fatted calf??) and what happens about the locals that got the "large pay" AFTER the project is finally completed and "we" are gone??

While it may be in the best interests of the U.S. Gummint to say something about a particular country's wage/labor rates etc, it is after all THAT contry's policy. How can the U.S. dictate to a country what it does to or handles their citizens?? and should the U.S. do this-how can it (US) enforce what it said to that country's government?? We have to many "friends" around the world as it is, maybe that's why our embassy compounds are built behind 12 foot high, steel reinforced, concrete walls with hi-security fencing and gates.

[Expat]

Traveler I agree with you that expecting to have Embassy built with all US labor is pie in the Sky, But to turn a blind eye to contractors like First Kuwaiti that kidnap and beat their workers is wrong. See article at this web site www.corpwatch.org The same contractor that according to Mexfish plans to pay unskilled labor $2/hour in Fiji and even if they work 7 days a week 12hr/day that would keep them below the poverty level according to the Fiji Times www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=14173. You think we are going to make friends around the world paying slave labor rates.

[1John]

First I would like to say that I agree with all of you guy's that previously replied to this Thread.
However I would like to add that it gets kind of discouraging trying to get your local "cheap" labor up to speed with how things should be done as far as American standards go, and in general I have yet to find someone that even comes close other than a couple of guys in germany and they just couldn't reason why we do what we do, oh and lets not even get started on being up to NEC code.
Surely the big heads will figure out that it is not as cost effective if you figured the whole job not just the face value of the labor costs they should also figure in the "REWORK" involved with such labor.:wtf

[traveler]

Expat-

No, I don't think that we will make friends by paying slave labor wages, but you didn't really read what I posted. Answer the 2 questions that I posed namely; 1) How can the U.S. dictate to another country how it treats it's citizens and 2) should the U.S. decide to "dictate terms" to another soverign country, how can the U.S. enforce what it says?? If something needs doing about locals/wages/importing labor, have the U.S. Government change the laws that govern business or how a business "structures" it labor practices.

The Fijian Government be it corrupt or not has made the laws concerning labor and wages and ultimately, this has set the "standard" of income level and living conditions in their country. They have also made (or not) laws concerning visa requirements for visitors to Fiji, work permits and the like.
The First Kuwaiti Company-(humm, kinda ketchy name that-doesn't sound Merican at all) or the other company(s) of this ilk that will take their place will in the end collapse (they self-destruct) and OBO/State Dept. pull the plug on them.

An article in a paper that is commented on by someone from the State Dept. will be heard at other levels than us mere "mortals" are privy to so I doubt seriously that a "blind eye" or any other kind of eye would be turned and conditions ignored indefinately. In the mean time, what is it that you propose should be done in some meaningful manner to bring this situation of slave labor and wages to the fore??? Here's a thought-maybe there are other company(s) out there just as bad or worse than First Kuwaiti-these folks just happen to be blatenant about their hiring tactics.

[Expat]

Traveler
It would be ludicrous to think we are going to change another governments labor practices every time we build an Embassy. But we can make sure that who ever works on our projects at least pays above poverty level wages,does not kidnap or beat its workers. We are the United States a cut above we are supposed to set an example for the rest of the world not be part of the problem!

[TheJester]

I know this is :offtopic but, I heard a rumor once, that we were the "creme of the crop", though I have failed to see that come to fruition.

[traveler]

Expat,

Now that we agree that it would be somewhat of a futile gesture (at least now in the current world political climate) to change another countries labor policy's, "we" also haven't changed our policy concerning any of the company(s) that construct our embassy(s). Answer your own question-How can we make sure that the company(s) hired locally pay above average wages and treat their workers better than slaves??

[Expat]

Traveler
That part would be easy, make it part of the bid process. Shouldn't be that difficult to come up with some kind of minimum standards for local labor. The hard part is finding the political will to implement such changes. As I said at the on start of this thread the only way State would make any changes is if they are embarrassed into it.