Wages

[Sasquatch]

I am a master electrician with tss experience. I have been doing multi trade jobs the last few times out. I would rather do multi trade for the wage I am making instead of going below 30 an hour to do tss work. I just refuse to lower down. I will sell pencils on the street corner first.

I know I have been seeing a lot of guys who buy a 10 in one screw driver and think they are an electrician.

Just my :2cents

[makj]

Seriously, I don't think tradesman should except anything less than 30 hr. I know alot of people thinks it should be 35 or 40 or more, ( but baby steps) we need to get certain companies and we all know their names, to get their head out of their asses, and start paying a decent wage. If everyone tells them to get bent, and turns down their shitty pay, they will have to bring it up in order to staff the job. There will always be some suck-ass wannabe company man @#$^&#@^ (fucks) that will take the low pay gigs, but they can't do the job by themself.
and thats my:2cents

[The Wild Rover]

I have worked overseas in a project management/working with the tools format for $35-40/hour, for the past several years. I was offered recently $42-$50/hour for the same work. I honestly feel that this is largely due to the experience and reputation developed over the years. I believe actions speak louder than words....however, if I get the travelling jones, and I feel I will again someday, I would go out for $30/hour just to get on a job for a temporary basis or between projects. I believe $30 per hour is a good, fair wage for a journeyman working overseas. I also believe, if you do get a better offer while employed overseas, the professional thing to do is approach your employer with the other contractors offer, to give them a chance to make a counter offer. You never know what you'll get. If the boss decides to keep a valuable employee, he may be able to come close, and offer more benefits to your package that may make the difference in pay negligible. If your boss flips his wig, try to imagine him in a critical issue in the feild, acting the same way...would you want the same reaction in a crisis. Nope. Time to drag up, and to do so would benefit you financially and emotionally in the long run. And do learn how to drag up...nothing burns that bridge faster than telling the employer to f@#$ off, which is basically what you are doing if you do this wrong. Newbies (and geez, some of you old timers), go over to helpful tips, and do it right.

[thickcajun]

A man once told me we pay between 35 an 40 hour. then said how much will you work for, well that's a no brainer 40 of course. It's all about talking to these guys. offer you 25 bet your ass you can get thirty. There always gonna offer you the bottom line. it's up to your negotiating skills to get more.:2cents

[mexfishguide]

Improved wages, seem to be a non wanted subject.:AR15

I agree what a person accepts as pay is their business.

Each person should accept what they think they are worth,
regardless of the amount. I will still buy you a cold one.

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[Gabriele]

This keeps going I guess. No one makes anyone go anywhere for less then they want to earn, it's what you accept. I had one offer come in to work for a state government, at up to $43000 per year, I would also get a state car/gas, laptop, cell phone, etc. When I told them that all the stuff were tools to do the job and 43K was entry level pay for that job I never heard back from them. I agree that ones reputation will make the mark for pay and it is heard to expect a company to take on new workers at pay that experienced tradesmen make. I do think that each person has their needs and who is to say how much we should take for the job.:2cents

[The Wild Rover]

If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

[Sparky1]

This is a great subject. Lets stay on this one for a while. It could even include benefits as well. The comments I read are good.
Each man has to negotiate the wage, benefits and conditions.
It is a tug of war , has been , always will be. Contractor wants to pay minimum wage, craft people want a decent wage.
Go to the Means estimating book. A current print. There you will see that a journyeman craftsman's wages will be estimated at around $70 / hour. This is the cost per man hour of labor the contractor charges. The journeyman earns about $30/ hour plus medical and a retirement, pushing his total package to around $40/ plus per hour. Contractor profits whats left.
I have not experienced any benefits from any contractor doing overseas work now for over 15 years.
If the contractor will not give any benefits then the pay on the check should be around $4o per hour. Especially working 60 hour weeks for no extra compensation. And especially if the per diem is minimum.:fauches:
Thats all for this session. More later.

[mexfishguide]

sparky1, Hell do not quit now bro, while your on a roll.

Take Care
Mexfishguide:cheers

[TheJester]

Actually, I'm curious about what benefits ARE. Now that I think about it, aren't I the one paying for the insurance, THEY are providing? Trying to think on this one. The taxes taken out for Social Security, is NOT a retirement plan they are providing. I think you have a point Sparky1.

[coastal69]

No matter how hard a person may try to get more bang for a buck. Everyone gets what they pay for. You are never going to buy a new pickup truck for the price of a Yugo.
I liked what I read earlier.... "If you pay peanuts, all you'll get is Monkeys"

Why is it that US Labor Laws and Davis/Bacon Wages are not enforced on Federal projects overseas? Can anyone answer this for me?

It seems like the Taxpayers are getting the shaft again and ending up with substandard buildings because the rules of the game are not being enforce equally. They have opened themselves up to always getting stuck with the "low ball substandard contractors".
If the tradesman qualifications, wage rates and labor rules are enforced universally then we would not be having this discussion.

[pacificdiver]

No matter how hard a person may try to get more bang for a buck. Everyone gets what they pay for. You are never going to buy a new pickup truck for the price of a Yugo.
I liked what I read earlier.... "If you pay peanuts, all you'll get is Monkeys"

Why is it that US Labor Laws and Davis/Bacon Wages are not enforced on Federal projects overseas? Can anyone answer this for me?

It seems like the Taxpayers are getting the shaft again and ending up with substandard buildings because the rules of the game are not being enforce equally. They have opened themselves up to always getting stuck with the "low ball substandard contractors".
If the tradesman qualifications, wage rates and labor rules are enforced universally then we would not be having this discussion.

http://www.laborlawtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6477

[Expat]

Coastal it's my understanding that Congress back in the sixties passed a law exempting the US government from Davies Bacon on projects overseas.

[Gabriele]

I was able to find a particular link to see when or why there was a suspension to the Davis baker Act on prevailing wages for overseas workers, but here is one link of many I found on www.google.com,

http://www.dol.gov/esa/programs/dbra/

President Bush did suspend this act for hurricane damaged areas in Louisana, parts of Florida.

[coastal69]

OK as usual the bureaucrats thought they could get more "bang for the buck" with their Capital Projects budget. What do you guys think? Are they getting skillfully well constructed and functionally efficient facilities as an end result upon completion of an embassy project???
My guess is that the O&M budgets eat up any construction labor cost savings realized within the first few years.
I am not discounting the politics behind utilizing local hire laborers in the host country. But isn't it interesting that rules and Reg's enforced in our own society are ignored outside our borders and never apply to the governing body that determines and enforces them?
OK, OK, I know I'm pointing out just one more example of ironic hypocrisy surrounding us. I'll stop pissing and moaning now. I knew the answer to the Labor Laws-Davis/Bacon Act question before I asked it. Of course they are not enforced outside our boarders but I'm getting the impression that the contracting companies are trying to lower costs by hiring unqualified personnel to perform skilled labor tasks. Or is it just that HR Departments are swallowing bullshit from applicants and obviously they don't have the technical knowledge or experience to spot the pretenders. In reality it is hard to find good tradesmen everywhere. I've hired five times as many loser's than I have solid tradesmen. I have better luck choosing apprentices and training them, than hiring "journeyman drifter's". A number of solid guys that I have had a key role in training are highly regarded members here. Unfortunately I don't get to work with just a couple guys under my close direct supervision anymore.
Now that I am done running off at the mouth; or keyboard in this case. I want to throw out a couple more questions for opinionated replies.

Is there a real shortage of reliable skilled tradesmen willing to do Overseas work?

Or are the employer bean counters trying to cut costs by hiring unqualified people willing to work for less to get some experience?

We all know it costs them more in the long run, but they are not on-site to see the results of their naivety.

Are the Govt. contracting officers and/or inspectors checking to ensure that qualified people are being employed for the trades with specific requirements as stated in the Contract Documents?

[Gabriele]

I am detecting stuff here that for some reason union means quality, while non-union means crap. I hired a union plumber years ago to install a new pump for my well to supply my home with water. I went with the union shop because I felt I would get a better job.

Here's what I got, a poor installation, power breakers kept tripping (found out he skinned insulation of the wires as he lowered it into the pipe. He charged me to repair his errors, he also charged me for driving to his shop to get the parts he should have been carrying on his truck. Then I found later after doing measurements on the pump that he installed the wrong controller board.

What's my point in all this, it is my belief that quality doesn't come from being union or not, but from ones work ethic. Skill and knowledge mean a lot, but if the ethic isn't there what do you think you'll get. My training was provided by the company I worked for and OJT with other tech's, plus experience over time.

[jackcease]

I LEARNED MY TRADE (PLUMBING) FROM A MAN WHO ONCE SAID THAT IF YOU PUT YOUR HAND TO A JOB, IT'S LIKE IT HAS YOUR SIGNATURE. IF THE JOB IS WELL DONE, THOSE WHO SEE IT WILL BE IMPRESSED BY YOUR WORK, BUT IF IT'S GARBAGE...WELL YOU'LL SOON BE OUT OF WORK.
I'VE SEEN MANY UNQUALIFIED WORKERS, AND THEY DON'T LAST. SOMEONE ALWAYS GETS HIP TO THEIR BULLSHIT AND THEY SPLIT.
MY PRESENT DILEMMA IS WITH A COMPANY THAT IS GOING THROUGH SOME CONTRACT REVIEW WITH THE ARMY AND IT'S NOT LOOKING GOOD. I'D LIKE TO STAY OVERSEAS AND AM TIRED OF GETTING SHOT AT. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. CONTACT ME PLEASE.

[AK49]

I've two Halls under my belt and worked lots of projects working with all the craftmen being represented and one thing prevails across the board, the quality of youth/Apprentis is very poor.
If you starte out with shit when your done training you probly still have shit.
It's rare to run across a young man that takes ounership in the product he produces, there very impressionable to the group attidude.
"Attidude reflects leadership" If your managers are a piece of shit then shit rolls down hill. Who is at the bottum.
That kid wanting to learn.
There are always guys that seam to shine when it comes to good attitude can do people and they perform cause they love what they do, and they're out there in the union and as scabs to. both worlds have there shit bags i prefer to be paid for my skills the money a scab makes, i'd punch you in the fucken mouth offering that kind of money to me.
And for all you guy working over seas for 20 years 40 dollars an hour here in Alaska is good money, but the Dollar is taking it in the Ass around the world.
The dollar don't buy much here. why isn't that part of the negotiations.
I want to get paid in Fucking barrels of oil or Gold.